Page 8 | To think there should be a point at which they trust my judgement?

UndertheCedartree · 2022-07-19T12:23:52+00:00

Genuinely, asking this question. I'm a bit confused and not sure if I've really messed up. I don't want to drip feed but equally don't want an essay so I'll try to give the important information and happy to clarify if necessary. Starting 5 years ago my 2 DC (15 & 10) have been under Children's services Child in Need. This happened as I had a mental breakdown. The case was closed about 6 months ago. Due to abuse in my childhood from my dad one of the stipulations was that they couldn't be alone with my parents. My parents live in a different country and due to Covid we've not seen them much over the past 2 years. My mum is keen to get to know her grandchildren better. We arranged that today my mum would pick up my DD from school (in her car with air con) and take her to the cinema (more air con.) I thought as the case had been closed and my mental health is much better (in terms of me being able to make a judgement) that this would be ok. But I've just found out Children's Services are opening their case again due to this. What do you think? I love my mum and want her to see her grandchildren, but maybe we should have planned for me to go along?

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 18:04

TheSoapyFrog · 19/07/2022 16:48

I was giving an example OP. In your case the recommendation was to not allow your parents to be alone with your child. Allowing your parents to be alone with your kids is the same as going back to an abusive partner.

It still puts your children at risk. If you had continued to allow them to be alone with their grandparents while you were on child in need despite the recommendation, you probably would have gone on a child protection plan. Your children aren't suddenly not at risk anymore.

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We barely see my parents as it is. They had hardly ever been alone with them anyway (my dad never). I don't think they were even mentioned when we had a CP conference. I appreciate your point but it wasn't something that really ever came up.

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ackeeandpeas · 19/07/2022 18:05

Cs are not fine with your parents seeing the DCs,. as you have said. Do you have real conception of how deep in denial you are?

anyway- it's your look out. You have had good advice on the thread. And also from your very own social workers. Anything form this point is genuinely on your own head.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 18:07

UnimpeachableBravery · 19/07/2022 16:59

How could you possibly know he wouldn't lay a finger on them if he did it to you?

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Because he knows he would never see any of us again.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 18:09

Provenceinthesummer · 19/07/2022 17:02

Op, if what your father did was so normal and minimal at the time why do you think you are struggling so much to face up to it?

I don't really know. Maybe because I have autism and EUPD? But what I have said is I thought it was normal at the time. I have since been told it was abusive.

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50mg · 19/07/2022 18:09

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 18:07

Because he knows he would never see any of us again.

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Surely that was a risk when he was doing it to you?

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 18:13

Provenceinthesummer · 19/07/2022 17:06

You are compromising your children's safety and security by seeing your parents with your children at all.

Are you still being supported by your MH team? I think this is time to get more support before SS decide they can’t guarantee your children’s safety any longer.

But CS have never said my DC shouldn't see my parents. How do I go about getting more support, exactly? My Care Co left so I'm just on the waiting list for allocation. I need therapy but despite my hospital psychologist saying exactly what I needed I am still not getting it.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 18:19

rocksonrocks · 19/07/2022 17:10

What do you mean they were beginning to turn a corner? How would you know anything about that. Also why is my mum picking my DD up stopping them turning a corner anyway??

I mean in the sense that Child in Need order for your children was closed and they (and you) were able to move forward as a family without intervention from CS, but now because of this incident it will be reopened or looked into again and CS may need nice again be involved. You yourself said your DS hates talking to social workers etc. Its a shame.

Oh, ok I see what you mean. I suppose as I know we do need help it doesn't worry me too much. Thinking about it we may be referred to Early Help, which I was still waiting to hear about from 6 months ago. We need to see them anyway. Sorry, I know my comments are all over the place, that's just what my brain is like.

Anyway, going to watch film now. I do appreciate all the help and advice. Will read rest of comments later.

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QforCucumber · 19/07/2022 18:31

No my children have never been on a CIN plan, they’ve also never met my father - I don’t even know if he knows they exist, if he turned up at my doorstep he’d be sent on his merry way. Nothing to do with the ‘discipline’ he inflicted on us but other reasons, but - to protect myself and my children no matter how much he wanted a relationship with them, they are priority and they don’t need a relationship with him.

you seem very focussed on the fact that CS have never told you to not let them see him: why do you need someone to tell you that?
that is precisely why they do not trust your judgement, it is a decision which seems obvious

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:14

RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:19

Okay then.

Don't listen to randomers on MN. Listen to the specialists you will be referred to.

Please.

I've got no skin in the game. But this is literally my daily bread and butter.

I am! They told me my dad can't be alone with the DC. And he isn't.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:16

Merrifields · 19/07/2022 17:37

I think you have been very foolish. I am pleased the school reported this. How could you take such a risk?

I suppose I didn't see it as a risk, but luckily neither do CS, so all ok.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:31

RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:40

Sorry youy are a complete fool. Do you really trhink that social services put restrictions in place for happy and normal families. And do you think that they stiplulate restrictions on GPs for GPs who are not of concern?

Even the families I wokr with are on the whole less deluded than you seem to be.

But as I said- stop wasting time on MN and talk to the professionals you will have been signposted to. But at the end of the day the LA and the SW will want to see that you are the main protective element in the life of your children. You might want to think about this more deeply.

I have no idea what you are talking about! I have never said we are happy and normal. My DC were separated from their mum for 3 years - hardly happy and normal is it?? I have said my dad is of concern. CS have said my dad is of concern. We are on the same page. Don't tell me to stop wasting time on MN! Other people have given me helpful advice, actually. I can hardly phone CS up now can I? They don't answer the phone at the best of times! I am their main protective element My children were never on Child protection - there were no safeguarding concerns!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:32

Provenceinthesummer · 19/07/2022 17:42

You are saved by the fact your parents live in another country. You are in acute need of support and therapy, I wish you the best 💐

Thank you

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Heatstrokeunsteady · 19/07/2022 19:33

Take it seriously. Do what they tell you.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:42

RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:47

Just to say I have now reported you. Because I genuinely cannot believe a poster in your situation can be so unthinking. If you are a troll then you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Oh behave! This is your 'bread and butter' yet you don't even understand pretty basic things. You seem more like a troll than me!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:47

RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:54

If you children were on a CIN plan then you will have been told about a PLO. It is the final step for YOU to make changes before court action which means children moved into foster care. In PLO you children might be moved into foster care as a temporary thing. PLo is court naction to see if other people might (on a semi permanent to permanen tbaiss) bet better placed than you to look after your children. I feel quite sure that if your children were listed as CIN then this wil, have been explained to you.

In short. If you do not want your children at risk of fostering and depending on their age at risk of adoption then you need to listen to the SW and the local authorities and you need to pull your head out of the sand.

If you are real, then it is clear you have no idea whatsoever of the very very serious situaiton you are in.

never ever priotise adults over children. Never prioritise abusive adults over your own children.

You would never be in this situation for the odd randon vaguely dysfunctional family relationship. There is very serious abuse and dysfunction. FFs wake up to it.

I've looked what a PLO is and no of course it wasn't explained because we were no where near that! We were never on Child Protection. We were on Child in need to give my DC some support. They gave us some support, I didn't have to make any changes as I was doing nothing wrong unless you think a mental breakdown was my fault. I have never prioritised adults over children. We were under CIN because I had a breakdown not because of abuse and dysfunction! Wake up - you really have no idea!

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:51

Fladdermus · 19/07/2022 17:55

OP, I'm sorry but you are being really naive here. You think because social services haven't expressly told you not to allow your mother unsupervised access this time that it's okay for her to have unsupervised access? They have no power to swoop in and stop your mum picking her up unless there was an immediate threat to your child. They won't tell you not to allow it as that's not their role either at this point, you are the parent and that decision is yours. But they will respond to the schools referral and they will make a judgment on your decision making, and they will take into account the recommendations they made to you before they closed the case and whether you've taken them on board.

No, I made a judgement call as my DC's parent. It turns out it was the correct one and CS have no problem with it. School actually can and have done that where there was no immediate threat (different situation). They actually have told me today to not allow my dad unsupervised contact (already doing this).

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:54

NeverDropYourMooncup · 19/07/2022 17:56

Neither adult could be trusted to keep you safe as a child. And SS know from experience that GPs lie - 'oh, he won't be there' means he'll just happen to be driving the car or popping along to meet GM. And you've said you want them to have a relationship with both GPs.

Which means, unfortunately, that you've been proven to be untrustworthy/unreliable in your judgement and potentially failing to protect your children as well.

They don't put these requirements in for the fun of it. They mean it.

If I said that, it was a mistake. I am happy that they have a relationship with my mum. Most of the time when we see her my dad isn't even in the country. My DC were never under Child protection so no, I have never shown I can't protect my DC.

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ackeeandpeas · 19/07/2022 19:58

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 19:47

I've looked what a PLO is and no of course it wasn't explained because we were no where near that! We were never on Child Protection. We were on Child in need to give my DC some support. They gave us some support, I didn't have to make any changes as I was doing nothing wrong unless you think a mental breakdown was my fault. I have never prioritised adults over children. We were under CIN because I had a breakdown not because of abuse and dysfunction! Wake up - you really have no idea!

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Oh OP. I don't need to wake up. I am afraid that you do., As I said, this is my daily bread and butter. I am sorry you are inn this situation and I will only repeat- get some real life expert legal support.

bluegardenflowers · 19/07/2022 20:06

Very silly of you not to have spoken with children's services first to clear this visit. If granny picked up DD alone, how do you (or SS) know your father wouldn't have been there too, with granny complicit? Granny didn't protect you as a child, what makes you think she would do the same for your DD?

Sorry but you don't get to make these decisions when the welfare of a child is in question.

bluegardenflowers · 19/07/2022 20:10

Firstly, in the past I didn't know it was abuse, to me it was normal. My mum didn't enable it

This sentence alone shows your lack of judgement. You seriously think your mum wasn't aware of abuse issues? And if it was completely hidden from her at the time, she knows now, and is still with him.

Please stop defending your choices and speak to people who want to help you and keep your child/ren safe.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:32

ackeeandpeas · 19/07/2022 18:05

Cs are not fine with your parents seeing the DCs,. as you have said. Do you have real conception of how deep in denial you are?

anyway- it's your look out. You have had good advice on the thread. And also from your very own social workers. Anything form this point is genuinely on your own head.

We agreed when on CIN that neither would have unsupervised contact. Now they have said unsupervised contact is ok with my mum but not my dad. At no time have they said no contact. I have had very good advice. Hopefully we will get Early Help which I have been trying to get for ages.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:33

50mg · 19/07/2022 18:09

Surely that was a risk when he was doing it to you?

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No, I had no control over it as a child.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:35

QforCucumber · 19/07/2022 18:31

No my children have never been on a CIN plan, they’ve also never met my father - I don’t even know if he knows they exist, if he turned up at my doorstep he’d be sent on his merry way. Nothing to do with the ‘discipline’ he inflicted on us but other reasons, but - to protect myself and my children no matter how much he wanted a relationship with them, they are priority and they don’t need a relationship with him.

you seem very focussed on the fact that CS have never told you to not let them see him: why do you need someone to tell you that?
that is precisely why they do not trust your judgement, it is a decision which seems obvious

Look one minute I'm told to do what they say and the next to make my own judgement. I made my own judgement and CS were happy with it.

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:37

ackeeandpeas · 19/07/2022 19:58

Oh OP. I don't need to wake up. I am afraid that you do., As I said, this is my daily bread and butter. I am sorry you are inn this situation and I will only repeat- get some real life expert legal support.

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Surely you understand then. If they are not on CP how are they any where near being taken into care? If the duty SW was happy with my judgement how exactly are they close to going into care?

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Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 20:40

bluegardenflowers · 19/07/2022 20:06

Very silly of you not to have spoken with children's services first to clear this visit. If granny picked up DD alone, how do you (or SS) know your father wouldn't have been there too, with granny complicit? Granny didn't protect you as a child, what makes you think she would do the same for your DD?

Sorry but you don't get to make these decisions when the welfare of a child is in question.

But why would I? They're not under Child services anymore? Do you honestly think everyone who has been on a Child in need plan clears everything with CS for the rest of their life? I know because I know what the plan was. Why would my dad need to sneak around when he has already seen them? Why would my mum go behind my back and risk never seeing her grandchildren again?

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