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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there should be a point at which they trust my judgement?

257 replies

UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 13:23

Genuinely, asking this question. I'm a bit confused and not sure if I've really messed up. I don't want to drip feed but equally don't want an essay so I'll try to give the important information and happy to clarify if necessary.

Starting 5 years ago my 2 DC (15 & 10) have been under Children's services Child in Need. This happened as I had a mental breakdown. The case was closed about 6 months ago. Due to abuse in my childhood from my dad one of the stipulations was that they couldn't be alone with my parents. My parents live in a different country and due to Covid we've not seen them much over the past 2 years. My mum is keen to get to know her grandchildren better. We arranged that today my mum would pick up my DD from school (in her car with air con) and take her to the cinema (more air con.) I thought as the case had been closed and my mental health is much better (in terms of me being able to make a judgement) that this would be ok. But I've just found out Children's Services are opening their case again due to this. What do you think? I love my mum and want her to see her grandchildren, but maybe we should have planned for me to go along?

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:11

dottieautie · 19/07/2022 15:24

This is too complex for mumsnet to solve OP. Too many want details and the juicy gossip and to wag their fingers while simultaneously shaking their judgemental heads.

There is some good advice in here but also some really ignorant comments based on having no understanding of the complexity of generational abusive relationships, of which your mother may also have been a victim rather than a perpetrator or enabler. There is a degree of victim blaming in this thread and that helps no one.

In all kindness OP I’d request a meeting with social work to clarify what their continued expectations are of you as a mother no longer under their guidance and supervision. Have it explained clearly and simply and ask questions rather than making assumptions. Leave nothing to chance.

I also think you need to find a way, perhaps with a therapists support, to have the conversations you need to have with your mum about what happened and what is going to happen in the future.

Thank you for your kindness, it means a lot. I will chase it up if I don't hear from CS in the next couple of days, but I've never managed to get the manager to pick up the phone to me. If so, I can see if school can help.

I agree about therapy and I have been trying but still not able to access long term therapy which is what my hospital psychologist says I need. She wanted me to have proper Schema therapy in the community.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:12

TuftyMarmoset · 19/07/2022 15:25

It could be relevant though. I believe CSA abusers are more likely to reoffend than people who hit their kids hitting their nonresident GC, so they would be less at risk. Not zero risk obviously hence the stipulation but only OP knows the nature of the abuse so calling someone a paedophile/pro paeophilia when you don’t even know what happened is a bit unnecessary.

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I agree.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:14

RuggedD · 19/07/2022 15:25

I have professional dealings with SW and children in CP plans.

You judgement is not sound. You have just had their case clsoed (which is the holy grail for many families) and you have chosen to expose your children to your parents.

I think you need to have a very long, objective look at your actions. Of course the SW will be concerned. To their mind it looks like you played by the system until you thought they were not watching. It is going to be very hard to convince them otherwise.

If your parents are not safe (and if your mother enabled abuse and is still with your fathe then she is NOT SAFE) then you need to be as afar away from them as possible for the good of your children.

Listen to the social workers. Listen to what you have to do. Do that.

You have essentially put yourself right back to the beginning and they will not trust you or your judgement again without a crap load of new work on your part.

They have never said my DC shouldn't see their grandchildren.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:15

ShakiRaRa · 19/07/2022 15:25

Hi OP, if your dad decided to turn up at the cinema with your Mum, would your mum turn him away?

He wouldn't do that, trust me. He has no interest in seeing a kids film. But I take your point.

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/07/2022 17:17

It sounds like you are in denial about your mums part in this. And rightly the authorities recognise that denial and are trying to safeguard your children

This - especially as it now turns out the circumstances haven't been fully discussed with DM

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:18

TedMullins · 19/07/2022 15:29

Are you able to get private therapy? It sounds like you really need it. It doesn’t matter if your mum didn’t “know” it was abuse, the fact is, she didn’t protect you from whatever behaviour you were being subjected to by your dad and she failed you as a parent. I have a similar story. My mum also minimised my dad’s abuse and I too wish my parents weren’t together. But I don’t foster a close relationship with my mum and I have told her outright she failed me and enabled me to be abused. I have next to no relationship with my dad (I would go completely NC but occasionally he is saying something in the background of a cursory phonecall with my mum so I can’t fully avoid him).

i really would recommend therapy if you can afford to go private - you clearly don’t have a proper grasp on the severity of the situation and that isn’t your fault, but you did make the wrong judgement call here. I would say promoting a relationship between your kids and mum is also the wrong call. Grandparents who abused/enabled abuse of their own children aren’t ones your kids need in their life.

No, I've tried but they say I need the MDT you get with the NHS. I do really need it, though. Thank you for the advice, though.

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RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:19

Okay then.

Don't listen to randomers on MN. Listen to the specialists you will be referred to.

Please.

I've got no skin in the game. But this is literally my daily bread and butter.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:30

Fladdermus · 19/07/2022 15:33

What behaviour are you talking about that wasn't considered abusive and when was 'back then'?

I'm in my 50s and my dad used to take his belt off to me. It was just as abusive back in the 70s/80s as it is now. Even though people turned a blind eye at the time, they knew full well it was abusive. My own mother would spout the same old minimisation of how things were 'different back then' but it's bullshit. It was wrong. He knew it was wrong. She knew it was wrong. And I damn well knew it was wrong. That is why my parents have no contact with my children. I love my mum too, of course I do. But I love my children more and have protected them. You need to start doing the same.

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I have always protected my DC. Nothing has ever happened to them.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:31

And my mum hasn't done that (minimising)

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:36

QforCucumber · 19/07/2022 15:40

I don't understand what the behaviour could be to not be considered abusive back then?

My parents smacked me, and however much I disagree with it and won't smack my children, it was 'normal' then - but just smacking wouldn't mean that they would be recommended not to see them by CS.

something to cause CS to say that your children should not be around them (and it is THEM not just him) is not an couple of incidents of old time discipline.

None of us need to know the what or the why, but YOU need to understand that by still being with him your mother automatically puts your child at risk - as pp said, if you dad turned up at the cinema - would you mum have turned him away? by not being there you'd have been non the wiser.

Have your DC been under CIN for you to know what CS class as abuse? And as it turns out it is purely my dad they can't be with alone. They can still be around him. And I get why people say about my dad turning up but it just wouldn't happen. He has no car to get there and is no where near, plus would not want to see a kids film. Why on earth would he turn up. And I would know, my DD would tell me.

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Merrifields · 19/07/2022 17:37

I think you have been very foolish. I am pleased the school reported this. How could you take such a risk?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:39

FawnFrenchieMum · 19/07/2022 15:41

I haven't read all of the responses so this might have already been said but your saying there is no risk to being alone with your dad but enabling your mum to be alone with them in turn enables this. He might be in the hotel today but what about next time or the time after once your guard is down as the relationship seems to be going well. Or what happens if after the cinema, he meets them for dinner without you knowing whats planned.

Your minimising both your fathers behavior and your mums involvement by adding it wasn't abuse back then. This doesn't sound like your ready to make those decisions.

I very much doubt another occasion with DM would have happened anyway. They live in another country - we don't see them much.

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RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:40

Sorry youy are a complete fool. Do you really trhink that social services put restrictions in place for happy and normal families. And do you think that they stiplulate restrictions on GPs for GPs who are not of concern?

Even the families I wokr with are on the whole less deluded than you seem to be.

But as I said- stop wasting time on MN and talk to the professionals you will have been signposted to. But at the end of the day the LA and the SW will want to see that you are the main protective element in the life of your children. You might want to think about this more deeply.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:42

antelopevalley · 19/07/2022 16:02

The case was closed because Social Workers thought you would protect your children never leaving them alone with your parent or parents. You have now left your child alone with your mum so proving that you can not protect your children.

Well, I actually haven't and it turns out it is ok for them to be alone with DM anyway.

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Provenceinthesummer · 19/07/2022 17:42

You are saved by the fact your parents live in another country. You are in acute need of support and therapy, I wish you the best 💐

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:43

iRun2eatCake · 19/07/2022 16:04

I personally would not do anything that could potentially put my DC in danger or open a SS case again

I'd be wary of your motherd intentions to be alone .... especially as your dad is close by.... he could "accidentally" bump into them somehow.

He's not close by

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RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:47

Just to say I have now reported you. Because I genuinely cannot believe a poster in your situation can be so unthinking. If you are a troll then you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:47

RuggedD · 19/07/2022 16:08

If your children were 'only' in a Child In Need plan before then I assume they will be moved into a PLO situation now. (Public Law Outline).

I very strongly suggest that you get a decent family law solicitor. The LA should give you a list of law firms that practice in this area along with an initial PLO letter and it will be free and come under legal aid.

PLO is something you can't mess around with. You need to both take and follow advice.

I'm not going to beat around the bush to save your feelings. You are very likely to now be in a very serious situation. You need to really cooperate with the social workers and listen and also admit openly you were wrong to them.

I wish you thr best of luck. I also hope you get decent therapy You obviously cannot quite believe your mother was complicit in your own abuse. It's natural to be in denial. But there is much more at stake now.

I'm starting to lose hope on the therapy front...

I'm not sure it is that serious. The SW was fine with my DM picking DD up as long as it wasn't my dad picking her up alone. What is PLO? How does it fit in with CIN and CP?

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:49

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/07/2022 16:09

They had recommended they shouldn't be alone with either parent. I think because of the concern being alone with my mum may lead to them being alone with my dad

In the context of the family minimising the whole thing this seems reasonable

As there's so much you don't feel able to discuss with your DM does she actually know about the recommendation that the kids shouldn''t be alone with her?

If so it tells us much that she too would ignore this

I'm not sure they have that context. They've never spoken to me or my parents about it, tbh.

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Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:53

Bunce1 · 19/07/2022 16:09

I found this so sad to read as it is clear to someone on the outside that you do not have clear boundaries or a good grasp of what’s ok and not ok.

You say that the abuse you’ve suffered wouldn’t have been considered abuse in the past. I don’t understand that. You know you were abused.

Well, I didn't before I was told.

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RuggedD · 19/07/2022 17:54

If you children were on a CIN plan then you will have been told about a PLO. It is the final step for YOU to make changes before court action which means children moved into foster care. In PLO you children might be moved into foster care as a temporary thing. PLo is court naction to see if other people might (on a semi permanent to permanen tbaiss) bet better placed than you to look after your children. I feel quite sure that if your children were listed as CIN then this wil, have been explained to you.

In short. If you do not want your children at risk of fostering and depending on their age at risk of adoption then you need to listen to the SW and the local authorities and you need to pull your head out of the sand.

If you are real, then it is clear you have no idea whatsoever of the very very serious situaiton you are in.

never ever priotise adults over children. Never prioritise abusive adults over your own children.

You would never be in this situation for the odd randon vaguely dysfunctional family relationship. There is very serious abuse and dysfunction. FFs wake up to it.

Fladdermus · 19/07/2022 17:55

OP, I'm sorry but you are being really naive here. You think because social services haven't expressly told you not to allow your mother unsupervised access this time that it's okay for her to have unsupervised access? They have no power to swoop in and stop your mum picking her up unless there was an immediate threat to your child. They won't tell you not to allow it as that's not their role either at this point, you are the parent and that decision is yours. But they will respond to the schools referral and they will make a judgment on your decision making, and they will take into account the recommendations they made to you before they closed the case and whether you've taken them on board.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:55

Luidaeg · 19/07/2022 16:29

No not really, we have relationships with people we love, not abusers

We don't talk to my father at all, no one has any kind of relationship with him

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I do love my mum. Also what if you don't know someone's an abuser? I didn't know for a long time. We barely see him, anyway.

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NeverDropYourMooncup · 19/07/2022 17:56

Neither adult could be trusted to keep you safe as a child. And SS know from experience that GPs lie - 'oh, he won't be there' means he'll just happen to be driving the car or popping along to meet GM. And you've said you want them to have a relationship with both GPs.

Which means, unfortunately, that you've been proven to be untrustworthy/unreliable in your judgement and potentially failing to protect your children as well.

They don't put these requirements in for the fun of it. They mean it.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 19/07/2022 17:58

viques · 19/07/2022 16:40

Why are you emphasising the air con? I doubt SS are that bothered that child abusing grandparents are being careful their grandchildren don’t overheat. I imagine that they are slightly more concerned about your lack of judgement in allowing them access to the children.

No need to be sarcastic. This is my actual life. My mum is not a child abuser. CS are fine with my parents seeing my DC. I mentioned the air con as I thought it would be nice for my DD rather than having to walk home at the hottest part of the day.

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