Definitely reporting now - is 101 the right number?

[PinkStarAtNight]

I started a thread the other week about whether I should report neighbours to SS because of child screaming through the night, and other things like mum being drunk in pool and not looking after the small children, smoking weed etc

Just now I've heard really really loud bangs coming from next door. No idea what it was, kind of sounded like a window being bashed closed again and again or something heavy being smashed down on worktops. Then lots of screaming from mother - 'STOP! STOP NOW' This went on for a while. It was so loud it sounded like it was coming from our upstairs (it's a semi detached)

Then child screaming and crying, sounds like same child from the other night. She is the smallest one I think. A toddler.

Then their back door opened and the crying child was pushed outside, with mother screaming 'GET OUT NOW! GET OUT THERE!...ITS TOO MUCH EMI. TOO MUCH' Then she slammed the door shut. The other kids were outside on the swings. They are a bit older but still young. They were trying to comfort small crying child.

They were saying to mum through window 'mum I can't talk to her because she just keeps asking for the door to be opened'. The mum shouted back 'No!'

A few mins later mum opened door and growled 'get in here'. Child still crying. Then I heard her say to slightly older children 'right I'm going upstairs, sort her out and DO NOT let her upstairs because honest to god I've enough.'

All is quiet now, but I really do need to report now don't I? I am in hold to 101. Have been a while now. .

Is 101 the right number? Or now everything is quiet should it be NSPCC or SS?

I live at home with my mum. She has just got home and I've told her why I'm calling 101 and she says she doesn't want me to call because she doesn't want any trouble. She thinks the police will come here and we will be in trouble with the neighbours.

What should I do?

Ring from your mobile. Your mum can't stop you doing that and go to your room to do it, not in front of your mum.

Child protection is everyone's responsibility, you are absolutely correct to report . 101 is fine but if you think child is in imminent danger then 999.

It's not up to you to decide if it's child abuse/neglect or a mother struggling to cope - that is the job of SS & police. Better to report & have early intervention, support put in place than hear about a child injured/killed & regretting later that you stood back & didn't get involved.
Have had lots of CP training for work & it's always drummed in that early intervention is best & despite what press would like you to believe SS will always try to support families as they are the best place for children be raised if at all possible, sadly sometimes that is not possible.
Hopefully this family will get the support they need.

Please be aware that SS can be good, but they do also slip up and tell the person one reports the complaints name at times. We had this happened to us. The Mum made our life a living hell after that and eventually during a drunken night with a male friend, she threatened to kill us and began forcing our front door. Thankfully despite my then husband telling me for years not to call the cops, I did. She was arrested, kids showed serious signs of being abused and were removed from her home. Thankfully for them, they had a very caring aunt who took them in. Your Mum telling you not to call 101, is wrong. How would she feel is something more serious happened. Hoping you are okay and get help asap.

Even if its a "false" call and this woman has a visit then at least you will have some comfort that you have been the one to "save" this child. I would perhaps use your OWN MOBILE PHONE and not your mothers landline and just DONT TELL HER - phone from a different location if you can as well.

Myself not heard of the number 101 but will remember that if ever I need to use the facility.

Good Luck.

@PinkStarAtNight
Better safe than sorry.
There are many instances where abused children regularly attend school, are clean and clothed properly and appear to be happy for at least some of the time.
If the neighbour is a single mum then she is probably stressed out. You and we have no idea what is going on in her life behind closed doors. Money worries, family problems etc. can all add to someone's breaking point.
I would write down the events in as much detail as you can...but only the facts and the dates/times. You're working so won't see half of it.
If there seems to be enough concrete evidence after a month, then report it. If it escalates or you don't see the little one for a while, report it right away.
My opinion, fwiw, is that mum is stressed with four kids under 12. It doesn't make shouting right, it doesn't make shunting the littlest one outside right either but it's not wrong. It's better than smacking and better than keeping children indoors all day or off school.
It's good to have neighbours such as yourself who care and opt for preventative strategies instead of ignoring what might be more serious abuse.
You are right to want the best outcome but children in care?...not a great idea. They love their mum but she may need a bit of respite.

as someone who works closely with childrens social work services and their ‘front door’ safeguarding teams I would say your best bet is to Google your local duty and advice team and give them a ring tomorrow morning to run it by them. It’s very unlikely that they would swoop in and remove the children (they don’t have the legal powers to do it) and they’re likely to signpost to support if the mum is struggling. The police often tend to have a more heavy handed response. They would need to be called if the child is at imminent risk of physical harm. CSWS are likely to be reluctant to take an anonymous referral as often these can be malicious ones.

This is a VERY SERIOUS child protection concern. You need to call 999. Safe guarding children is everyone's duty. PLEASE PLEASE phone 999 now, you don't want a child's death on your conscious. Please let us know what happens xxx

wow the differing views that keep coming in are making me doubt myself. But anyway the email is with NSPCC so its up to them now. I trust they have people qualified to make a decision better than I can

One thing just stood out to me from a PP - 'if your instinct was to call the police then what you heard must have been distressing'. It was!
I know people have said it sounded like it was the child doing the banging (as the mum was shouting 'stop') but the bangs sounded like really heavy furniture being crashed down on the floor, things being banged down on kitchen worktops, window being bashed shut repeatedly (our windows are big double glazed windows that are placed higher than a toddler's height). Our house is semi detached with theirs and it sounded like the nose was actually coming from the upstairs of our own house at one point. The house was almost shaking. It made me go outside to see what was going on and there were other neighbours from across the estate shouting 'stop!'. It just doesn't seem like a toddler could make those noises. But then again, why would the mum do it all herself then throw the child out saying 'it's too much' ?

Today while I was sitting in the garden, the older kids were out playing in the their garden with the toddler. When I say older kids, they sound really young themselves. Can't be older than 7. The mum was inside. The toddler started crying. (I couldn't see anything, only hear, as the fence between the gardens is very high. Only way I can see into their garden is from upstairs window)

Mum came out and said 'what happened?'
The two other kids said 'we didn't know anything had happened until she started crying. She just fell flat on her face. Honestly we didn't notice anything until we heard her crying. She literally just fell. She was climbing'
The mum said 'why would you let her?'
The kids said again 'we didn't know!!'
It didn't seem right that the toddler had been left with them and the mum's first reaction was to say 'why would you let her?' like they are responsible.

Anyway, my head is hurting after all this and I have sent the email to nspcc so I'm going to try think about other things for my own sanity. If something else happens that sounds threatening, I will call 999 next time. I was on hold to 101 way too long. If I had stayed on hold and they had answered, it would have been too late for them to attend and witness anything.

Thank you to everyone who posted helpful/supportive comments and helped me to decide what to do.

Plus this mother may need some help in her life - and thats got to be a positive thing as who knows of her problems. Could be her or an abusive partner for instance. My son when he was very young would constantly bring a girl home from school and I would end up feeding her and give ice cream in the hot weather for one day noticed the nits in her hair, we then all got them, so I walked this child home to find her mother drunk slumped on the sofa and cant quite remember the next step but she got the help she needed, saw her some years later and yes it was evident she still liked a drink, but I didnt realise that there was also another child, a boy and presume also not been being fed when home from school but that they must have had a free school meal dinner voucher in those days and hope that this child has one as well.

A member of my family has adopted two small children who were being neglected within their birth family. Social Services only found out what was happening because a neighbour reported her worries about the family, and her fears were found to be justified.
The family were given a lot of help to try to enable the children to return to them but proved incapable of giving up their bad habits and the children were removed permanently.
If you have any fears about how children are being treated or cared for it is the responsible thing to report them.

I think you have done the right thing.

You can report to the NSPCC and they can alert the authorities for you.

I’ve read your OP and can’t quite see what everyone else is seeing… there were loud bangs and then mum lost her temper putting the child outside- suggests to me the bangs were the child’s actions. The fact she left her outside in a garden suggests child was totally fine (e.g not just been beaten etc and the ‘bangs’ were physical abuse) and mum needed to either cool off or clean up a mess in peace or both. You don’t know if the child has just smashed up something very precious or expensive etc… can anyone here tell me they would not be even slightly aggrieved in that situation? I would be and perhaps removing child would be the best course of action if I was about to lose my cool. Parents are humans- occasionally shouting and needing 5 minutes when you are totally on your own sounds normal to me- unless it’s constant. Not great leaving her with other kids or shouting but you don’t have any idea what she may have just been faced with. If she’s a single parent she has no other adult to take over- don’t underestimate how much that’s needed sometimes.

I don’t like the weed or getting drunk scenarios whatsoever (I’d be far more likely to report these) but I can’t get too riled about this particular situation at all.

@PinkStarAtNight
What you witnessed was definitely emotional child abuse and you did the right thing. Adverse childhood experiences such as:
All forms of abuse
A parent/carer who is depressed or mental ill, addicted to alcohol/drugs or who is in prison.
Witnessing a parent being abused.
Losing a parent to separation, divorce or death
All of these have long term, if not lifelong, lasting effects.
Social services will NOT swoop in and take the children. They will work with the parent to help and support them to be better parents.

As for your mum, there were several people just like her who stood by and did nothing while children like baby P, Victoria Climbie, Marshall Christie, Mylee Billingham, Alexa-Marie Quinn and many more were abused and killed.
You absolutely did the right thing in reporting it. It is better to report something trivial than to not report something serious ❤

She has walked away from the child because she has had enough. Surely thats good, she didnt hit her and she has left her outside with older kids for a short time, what is wrong with that

Apologies please disregard my post (I've reported it to get it removed). It was meant for a different thread.

Look at this another way. If you do nothing what happens if the mother really has had enough and that older child does not stop that toddler going upstairs. The answer is maybe just maybe she beats the child within an inch of their life or worse kills them in a fit of rage. But its OK I am sure you and your mother could life with that at least you won't be accused of putting your nose where it is not wanted. Your mum can tell her other neighbours you had your concerns but it wasn't your problem. I'm sure when a reporter asks when that child is lying in a morgue if you suspected anything you can perfect the we had no idea routine.

Why are people creating narratives for this scenario?! (many of which make the poor toddler the villain) ..... It's honestly vile and goes against any principle of child protection. The truth is that neither OP or any of us know exactly what's happened but OP is clearly concerned about what she's witnessed. The point of her being told to report it to ss isn't to chastise the mum or make her life difficult, it's so that THEY can do their job, try to piece things together and try and work out what's going on? support mum if she needs it and most importantly give those children a voice. Why on earth would anyone ne against this?!?!?

Suggesting the child misbehaved (which is supported by the story) isn't blaming or villainising. It's a plausible explanation which time police may well have come to themselves, hard they been called out. Even if the child did something 'bad' I do not think a single normal person would condone hitting (if that's what the thuds were).

Too many children have been killed because of people thinking it's none of their business. The saddest thing is that even when authorities are notified, some children still die.
Please ring 999.

You should ring 999 and also report your concerns to social services. The police should report the domestic violence to SS themselves but the more referrals they get the better.

Was this in reply to my comment?

God OP. How horrible for you to hear and for the children living there. Sounds an awful environment, I hope someone helps x