Or are shit men shit from the start?

[Animallover87]

So many threads here about appalling husbands...

Were they always like that or did they reveal their true colours after marriage/DC when it was "too late?"

There is definitely something wrong with men in general

Shit men have shit parents.

They were always like that.

Why do you care OP? So you can judge the poor affected women who should have seen the signs from the start?

of course some men are sweetness and light before turning horrendous. It’s classic narcissist behaviour. I suspect you know this already.

If I look at the choices some of my friends have made, I’d say the bad ones have been shit from the start. It’s tough when you see someone you care about smitten by someone who’s clearly awful, but it seems to keep happening.

In some cases it seems to keep happening to the same people over and over again.

I’ll keep trying to be supportive, and sympathetic, but it’s a bit dispiriting to see the next loser on their arm shortly afterwards.

For some, shithead partners are more obvious from the start. For others, it's more covert and subtle. It can also come years later after kids/marriage/mortgage.
Could be their true colours coming out, health-related, or they change (with age).

There probably are signs with all or most of them but there are very good reasons why people don't spot those signs i.e. Their own parents being abusive so not having a good example of healthy relationships. I also think the signs are subtle - some of these men are very clever, they know to get women trapped before they really ramp up the shitty or abusive behaviour

I think a lot if men are perfectly nice and amiable but then when kids come along it turns out that because before kids life was 100% set up for them. Now they have to share their home, their wife, their money, with basically, life's greatest inconvenience.

And that's when the true colours show.

(I hate to have to add not all men, but you know).

The last guy I dated was great at the start, over a year I started to see some personality traits that are not great for a relationship.
Unless by "start" you mean 5 years, yeah it is possible to get deceived. So it's important to take things slowly.

Very few people change 180 degrees in adulthood.

In my lifetime observation, the signs they were assholes were always there, but the smitten partner turned a blind eye because they were afraid of being alone, or hellbent on having a wedding, or determined to have a baby.

We all would be better off if people would be more discriminating in their relationship choices.

They are shit from the start but they hide it

I was just thinking this, I frankly would not put up with half the shit I read about on here?

but then I have family who’d support me and can survive on my sole wage (not a stealth boast at all - I just understand its very easy for me to say I’d up and leave)

I think they were always like it but unfortunately the red flags often get ignored or excused. There will be people come on to say that their partner was great and then changed, I’ve seen that said in real life but in every case I know of, the red flags were always there. The person just hasn’t wanted to see them.

I think it’s a mixture but red flags are often there with abusive men but not always

society indulges men more when a man is kind, thoughtful, responsible a good father etc he is praised or classed as a good one his partner is lucky to have him 🙄 really isn’t that what should be expected

the bar is so low for men

I have heard of men who seemed lovely but turned out to be serious abusers. And I know that abusive men often up the ante when they’ve got a woman where they want her - at home, raising small children, dependent etc.

But in my experience, most horrible men are usually pretty obviously horrible from the start. I think it’s more a case of women having blinkers on and ignoring the obvious because they want to be in a relationship or think they can change the guy, or missing the cues because they are used to shit men / had shitty fathers.

When I think of my friends who have ended up with absolute bastards, the signs were there from the start.

I've had some men....the ones that EVERYONE thinks are the sweetest and nicest blokes ever, and they normally are, come on to me (obviously behind their partners back) and you just wouldn't imagine it from how they are in normal day to day life, you'd look at them and think 'nah, they couldn't do such a thing, they're so nice' but it does happen amd I think it's a pretty shitty thing to do to their OH.

You have to remember this is mumsnet where women come to complain. You get a very jaundiced view of life. If men had a version of mumsnet it would probably give you the impression that all women were evil, though sometimes you can get that impression from the posters on mumsnet.

I agree with hrtqueen too - it's a toxic combo of a low bar for men, and women still being seen as somehow lacking if they're not in a relationship. I think we are taught to settle because that's seen as preferable to being alone.

No, I absolutely wouldn't judge the poor affected women. You don't know me at all. Did you mean to be so rude?

I agree. My partners has amazing parents who were loving, encouraging, nurturing etc. This has rubbed off on him and he’s wonderful.

My good friends DH’s parents were alcoholics, abusive, angry, cold etc and he has poor communication skills, is manipulative and is just a really rubbish husband (in her opinion but I can 100% see this). I knew he was like that from the start but she was so infatuated that she missed all the red flags. Now she’s desperately unhappy but won’t leave

I should have looked at ex's parents marriage and ran a mile.

I was too young to see how unhealthy it was.

Some men are kind enough to wear their shitness or their goodness up front and bless them.

Some however are excellent at hiding who they are until they have lovebombed their partners into being deeply invested in them. It's much harder for them to walk away at this point. Some people are much more vulnerable to love bombing than others.

I think often it only becomes apparent after DC; it seems that a lot of men put themselves first and when it’s just the two of you it doesn’t matter because you can do it too but when you have kids and then you put them first but he isn’t it causes problems. Also having kids seems to trigger men to try and follow their parents patterns which if the mum did everything will cause issues.
however there are warning signs - I had a boyfriend who told me that when he has kids he expected to still go to pub at least twice a week and that’s what his dad had done so I knew I would not be having kids with him

I disagree with shit men have shit parents that’s not always the case

adults choose to make their own decisions regardless of their upbringing

No one knows anyone on here, it’s an Internet forum. I speak as I find.