To think that toddlers don’t need screens when they’re out and about?

[anotherscroller]

From the other “things you find rude and others don’t” thread, but it’s quite a big one so I thought it could have its own thread.

Here goes:
People who give their toddlers (let’s say 18 months to age 4) tablets/phones to watch tv on in public during incredibly short interludes of time.
e.g. A train journey of less than an hour, a bus ride, while they’re ordering coffee at a café, at the bus stop. While they’re in their buggy being driven back from nursery! That one blows my mind.
If it’s a long haul flight I do it myself, but I think such young children don’t need a screen entertaining them the whole time. AIBU? They are interested in trees, ants, the contents of your bag, playing beekaboo with your sun hat, everything. Watching the world go by.
EXCEPTION: Unless they have, or their caregivers has, a health condition that requires it, makes life easier, make life worth living..

Why do I find it rude?
In the same why I find anything where people are shutting themselves off from other people in public and not being aware of others. Even with headphones on. With toddlers, as an adult with my own toddler, I feel like they and people around them are being deprived of the opportunity to “be present” together. My toddler always wants to be curious about a child on the next table, show them her teddy, or something, and nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad.
i think part of being a parent is creatively keeping small children occupied during a waiting time.
i think part of being a child is learning how to be ok with boredom or waiting time, and not constantly having flashy tv to watch.
AIBU?

@AudHvamm

How to share space, respect and uphold boundaries

I fully agree with what you said, especially the above, so please don’t push your children onto me when I’m out. Yes mine may be watching her iPad, after already exhausting the toys, books and colouring I also fetched for her, after a busy day of dance class, playgroup and a park play date, so if she wants to watch an episode of Mr Tumble while I finish my meal she can crack on. So please don’t disturb us.

So how do you know whether my child is autistic, and using using his hospital issued tablet, or if I'm just a lazy parent before you pass your judgment?

Wow this is so judgmental! Why do you care so much about what other parents do? I give my child a tablet when out in certain situations such as a car or train journey to keep them occupied and stop them running riot/making lots of noise. So if I’m on a train or in a restaurant they aren’t driving others mad or if I’m driving I’m not being distracted. Tablet isn’t allowed at home and I also don’t use it on short car or train journeys but if you saw us out how would you know how long our journey was?

I agree with every word you say. Kids do not need these screens. There's a mum who shoves a screen on front of baby's face every second, she's scared he'll be bored.

My child was never given a screen until the age of 6 when he had to have one for home schooling during lock down. He is easily top of the class because we devoted precious developmental time to play activities, not a horrid screen.

I think you're right.

Yes we've all let our kids play on a phone when out and about for a bit of peace sometimes, yes we don't know the circumstances of each individual or or why they are doing something - so I try not to judge people for this.

However - as a general principle I think the use of smart phones is having a detrimental impact in many ways - on all of us! Even more so on children, as their brains are still developing and they're learning from birth to crave the dopamine hit of smart phone games and videos.

So yes, I don't think toddlers should be "plugged in". They should be learning how to live in the world, being present in the moment and their surroundings. Something most of us could do with doing more of!

It's not an "I'm better than you, a better parent etc" judgement. It's just a fact that yes, it would be better for their development not to be on phones too much (and better for many adults mental well-being also).

@godmum56 in the real world people have to learn to react to people they don't want to, this begins with when you are a child and you learn how to politely engage, then disengage. We are talking 3 year olds but what they learn as children is the beginning. Anyway how would you know whether the child would then find something interesting in the interaction of they don't interact in the first place

It is judgemental and it is also true and parents like you are letting your small children down. There is no need and absolutely no benefit to a preschooler being on a screen.

I've given my toddler a phone while we've been out for dinner, I've also given them toys , a menu to play with, crayons and paper, a keyring.....basically anything that will keep them distracted long enough from screaming all over the restaurant and to let me enjoy a meal - we don't have any baby sitters (literally none) and so getting out of the house for dinner is a very special treat that I want to actually enjoy and just have a small breather from running after screaming tantruming toddlers and house work.

So yeah I dont judge other mothers because A. I understand how hard motherhood is and understand that sometimes distracting toddlers to enjoy a bit of a breather is okay and B. It's none of my bloody business (no one knows what anyone else is going through)

I have thought this in the past but my son is autistic. He finds certain situations immensely stressful and likes to watch animal programmes on my phone. It enables him to switch off all the extra stimulation and go into his own world.

I get so many judgemental looks or likewise if I let him have his dummy if he is very stressed.

Being the parent of an autistic is really really hard. I have to be on it constantly... Thinking about the transitions, worrying if unexpected things happen.

He is non verbal so not able to express himself I have to guess all the time.

My point is... There are situations where screens can be helpful so so perhaps worth holding your judgement.

It's an electronic babysitter, the kids I'm a nanny for are on iPads the minute I leave work at 6pm, they go to bed at 7, so that short one hour with mum is spent on screens, I think it's really sad.

nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad.

Theyre only being lobotomised if they’re watching rubbish content - which I agree there is unfortunately a mountain of on YouTube in particular. My kid is extremely talkative and involved when he’s watching something decently produced, whether it’s a cartoon or a documentary or a learning type programme. Of course Tv also has other uses - learning another language for example.

As for being “rude”, no it isn’t. People in public do not need to be open to outside interactions at any moment. People have a right not to engage in lengthy interactions with other people while in a public space.

i mean I don’t really give my kids tablets. Only on long journeys. But I couldn’t give any less of a fuck what other parents choose to do with their kids.

It doesn’t impact you (your child wanting to invade another family’s space doesn’t count). Worry about your own kids.

It’s going to be interesting to see how this affects the social skills of these kids in the next 10-15 years. They’ll have very little capacity for conversation and I think we’re creating a generation of screen addicts, but then again it’s a global epidemic so perhaps civilisation will slowly evolve to make screen addiction inclusive.

He is easily top of the class because we devoted precious developmental time to play activities, not a horrid screen.

Screens have their place - we used an iPad for DD recently on a flight to Europe - but SEND issues aside they should never become the immediate go-to option.

I'd agree with this - it's all about moderation.

Problem is with strangers and snap judgements - you don't know if the parents are moderate screen users or have reasons for it plus there's less judgement attached to similar non screen be quiet and still activities such as comics colour books or books.

I'm sort of with you but also not. We don't own any tablet devices (no special reason, we both have really good work laptops and a family PC so no need) and my 3yo doesn't really get on my phone. But I was out with my mum recently and she whipped out her ipad and gave DD a jigsaw game to play on it. DD was entertained, it was no different to the puzzle books I carry around with me.

I suppose I'm saying actually how do you know they're just zoned out vs doing the kind of activities kids have always done to stop whining when out and about. I do think it's important to interact with them though and I see your point

I actually have a question to ladies who have adult children (like late 20s, 30s). You didn't have tablets or phones to entertain kids. How did you cope? I do get we shouldn't judge random women who give their children tablets, because maybe kid was handful that day and she needs some rest, but it's not like 80s and 90s babies were all anges. Mums must have been exhausted too and somehow they made it without tech. How did you entertain children on journey etc.?

*angels

Anyone else enjoying the irony of OP going on about kids on tablets which she’s posting on social media, in all likelihood from a tablet or phone?

Oh absolutely. One of the reasons I know about this research is because the optician lectured me about how much screen/indoor time my teen had had and how much his eyes had deteriorated. I reminded her that we not long come out of another lockdown and that school were expecting him to be online 9-3 every day for online school.

But that's not the case now! He's back to spending hours in the park after school and probably still too much screen time at weekends

Yet another post about people not matching yet another OP's gold standards of parenting. Is there something deficient in your life that stranger's kids using screens in public places bother you so much?

When DS was a baby he had severe lung problems (he still does but we have the right medication to control it now). He was also full of energy (later diagnosed with ADHD) so using the tablet was a perfect tool to keep him sat down and breathing.

he is nearly 13 now and has a massive complex medical history. He also has adhd and autism. Access to his iPad (funded by a charity) has been an absolute godsend in helping him access the world.

@anotherscroller Perhaps giving the child the phone was the only way to get a tantruming child to get in the buggy in the first place and she can't face the histrionics which occur is she takes it back.

I agree with you in principle but I agree more with @Antsinmypantsneedtodance

And as for the kids on holiday - it's the parents holiday too. Sometimes we just take the path of least resistance.

I do often wonder how my parents kept me occupied but that's not the world we live in now.

"Underhisi so are you saying that because your child bites or hits you use devices rather than them learning how to not bite or hit?? or is this because all the children on Mumsnet seem to have some sort of disorder which then means they are outside social norms?"

My child ( now a teenager) doesn't use devices. He is severely autistic. He has never wanted little kids bothering him which is why we avoided places where little kids would usually interact. He wouldn't do anything to them now. He may scream and bite himself or bite us or need to leave. I would prefer it that others considered his needs too and didn't think their child is the only one that matters. So if your toddler tries to interact and the child is looking down, looking away, holding their ears and trying to ignore them, move your toddler on.

My dc are late teens, but were toddlers in a pre-screen world.

We had travel games for train journeys. I'd always try and book table seats. If not they could just about manage on those little flip down tables. Eye spy. Colouring books. Talking about what we could see out of the window. All done quietly.
I quite often got compliments from other passengers about how well behaved they were.