To think that toddlers don’t need screens when they’re out and about?

[anotherscroller]

From the other “things you find rude and others don’t” thread, but it’s quite a big one so I thought it could have its own thread.

Here goes:
People who give their toddlers (let’s say 18 months to age 4) tablets/phones to watch tv on in public during incredibly short interludes of time.
e.g. A train journey of less than an hour, a bus ride, while they’re ordering coffee at a café, at the bus stop. While they’re in their buggy being driven back from nursery! That one blows my mind.
If it’s a long haul flight I do it myself, but I think such young children don’t need a screen entertaining them the whole time. AIBU? They are interested in trees, ants, the contents of your bag, playing beekaboo with your sun hat, everything. Watching the world go by.
EXCEPTION: Unless they have, or their caregivers has, a health condition that requires it, makes life easier, make life worth living..

Why do I find it rude?
In the same why I find anything where people are shutting themselves off from other people in public and not being aware of others. Even with headphones on. With toddlers, as an adult with my own toddler, I feel like they and people around them are being deprived of the opportunity to “be present” together. My toddler always wants to be curious about a child on the next table, show them her teddy, or something, and nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad.
i think part of being a parent is creatively keeping small children occupied during a waiting time.
i think part of being a child is learning how to be ok with boredom or waiting time, and not constantly having flashy tv to watch.
AIBU?

I can see times when it's helpful and times when it would be better for the kid if they didn't.

I was shocked by one friend who brought tablets for her two kids to DD's christening - and they spent the entire service playing on them! It was less than an hour, child-friendly service with plenty to see and do, and a toy corner to play in as well!

Generally I don’t judge people because as everyone points out, you have no idea what they’re going through on that day or what their child is like

But I did get a bit irritated at the family who were pushing their 3/4 year old around in a buggy with cocomelon blasting out on the loudest setting possible while the child looked around her in the shop and wasn’t really interested in the tablet. More so cos I think volume at that level is rude.

And then also, we’ve been for lunch a few times with some friends who have a toddler the same age as ours and they immediately get the tablet out to give to theirs at the table. It feels really unnecessary when he has another child there and then to interact with and means that ours wants to watch the screen too which we are trying to avoid

I agree with you. Not in the case where children have additional needs or mum struggling. But just in general. It's a big factor in language delay. Social skills are declining.

Years ago children played games on journeys eg. Spot the red cars. Counting etc.

Screens are for weekends and holidays I feel. The impact will be huge.

@anotherscroller @AudHvamm so then take them to playgroup, baby classes, play dates etc there are many many things designed for toddlers and young children to have social interaction with their peers. A family out for a meal, distracting their toddler with an iPad so they can eat, is not that time, not every interaction with another person has to be a learning experience.

I'd judge you for letting your PFB disturb people at other tables.

My ASD kid loathed holiday entertainment aimed at kids. DS1 would actively leave the room or have meltdowns.

With a tablet and headphones he can stay while DS2 could join in and DH and I can not sit in a hotel room.

But it just looks like a kid with a tablet to anyone else. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative.

I always remind myself that we are seeing a snapshot out of someone's day and you have absolutely no idea what has gone on that day, what they might be dealing with, whether it's a one-off, whether they are totally at the end of their rope, whether their child has additional needs. We don't use screens when out and about generally but DD is a very easy child. Perhaps if she wasn't then things would be very different if I just wanted 20 mins to eat a meal in peace!

I do agree screens are over used.

However :

e.g. A train journey of less than an hour, a bus ride

Thing is not driving my journey and interactions would have started way earlier - and while some bus rides and train journeys I will have spent interacting - others the kids themselves need some quite time before rest of interactive day happened or getting back from a hectic day- though I often went for comics, books crayons toys and not screen till much much later in childhood - it's the same idea keeping them occupied for a bit.

Plus in my extensive public transport experience many people really don't want to interaction with other peoples kids and can get unpleasant or very intolerant to any noise.

My toddler always wants to be curious about a child on the next table, show them her teddy, or something, and nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad.

Random interaction can be lovely however* *I've had many really bad experiences - sometime in only downtime of the day - possible because my three are close in age of other parents think we were some kind of free entertainment for their kid - and when you take them back I was often told oh we thought you were a childminder - even if I was they were not fucking paying me.

Also my youngest never found young kids cute - older two will happily interact she never has. When we did swimming she'd often use her tablet as a way of making it clear she didn't want to interact with much younger kids.

Though last time we ate out even DD1 was complaining about a baby wanting to interact with our table and banging to get attention.

So I think that one may well depend on the situation and people involved.

"My toddler always wants to be curious about a child on the next table, show them her teddy, or something, and nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad."

My son with autism ( and not using an ipad etc) can't cope with toddlers that try to bother him. Don't assume that other kids want your child's interaction.

And honestly maybe we just don't go to places where they are likely to be used, but I don't really see this much anyway. I guess we tend to go to child-friendly places with play areas and stuff if we are going out for a meal so the kids all tend to be in there or outside playing. There are loads of places to take your child to interact with other children in environments that are set up to do so (soft play, play groups, baby classes, play parks).

I'm more concerned/annoyed by the parents who give the kids a tablet to watch TV and then sit on their phones themselves. I am ancient and my children were born at the turn of the century, so the technology didn't exist when they were little - we had to take colouring books to keep them entertained and we had to use table manners, conversation and interaction to stop them annoying other people. I have ADHD, if that's relevant.

I think you're being too judgemental. I have an autistic toddler. We live in big city and have to take an underground train for an hour at a time every time. I would love for him not to use screens for that journey and read books, play with toys, engage with nice people, but after 2 mins of looking out the window at the train tunnel he just wants to run around no matter how packed with passengers it is. I could try to restrain a fighting screaming kid or I could give him a screen to help him regulate. My primary concern is his safety - he would absolutely run out of the doors or jump on the seats of a moving train - as well as the people around me. And really, for a 1 hour journey, who is not looking at their phone to pass the time.

I agree with you. But then I had toddlers before screens were a thing. Maybe I'd feel differently if I had them now.

There is new studies though showing a huge increase in children needing glasses for short-sightedness. They are linking it too too much screen time/not enough time being outside.

You are only seeing a snapshot of that persons day. You might just happen to catch them allowing their toddler on a phone for 5 minutes whilst they do a task. Doesn’t mean they do it regularly.

Dont be so quick to judge others parenting.

Oo I've just thought of another time we used our toddler's tablets that you'll probably enjoy judging OP. We used it at Disneyland Paris...

Pretty much our toddler was massively over stimulated so struggling to sleep and manage his emotions. Nothing could get through to him so as a last resort we gave him his tablet. We were legitimately pushing a 2.5 year old and 6 month old around Disneyland Paris whilst the toddler was on his tablet. It was just enough to focus him and calm him back down before we took it off him and carried on with the day. I don't see how it's any different to fidget toys and poppers etc. If anything it's just more effective.

It's very sad, but so normalised now. People are more likely to comment if you spend a meal chatting to toddlers or if the kids talk amongst themselves pleasantly.

I completely agree with you, OP.

With toddlers, as an adult with my own toddler, I feel like they and people around them are being deprived of the opportunity to “be present” together.

But people round about don't generally want to 'be present' with my DC. They usually want my DC to be quiet and not disturb them. Generally speaking, people are quite intolerant of small children and expect (not unreasonably) the parents to keep them in line. They're not interested in interacting with them or being disturbed by them and will judge parents whose children impinge on them in any way. The same people who judge are often the people who judge parents for using screens/tablets too. So as a parent, I tend to ignore the judgement and do what I think is best in the situation. I don't think people in confined spaces should have to tolerate noise/running around from my DC, so if we're stuck on a train or bus or in a waiting-room, I'll give DC a tablet for a bit (with headphones) to amuse them. I'm not interesting in DC 'interacting with' people (i.e. being a bloody nuisance) in a doctor's waiting-room.

There is new studies though showing a huge increase in children needing glasses for short-sightedness. They are linking it too too much screen time/not enough time being outside.

The last few years though there were a lot of parents like my DSis with no childcare options open and still expected to work a full day at home - screens had to be used. None working family were all extremely high risk and working family members too far away to help or in high risk working environments.

As soon as she could he was in childcare - and does many trips out and she had him in garden and walking dog but the need to earn to keep roof over their heads did mean more screens.

I hear you OP, I can tell you aren’t judging the scenarios where people have had a shit day or children have additional needs.

The sad fact is there are lazy parents out there and people would rather shoot you down than admit it!

I don’t judge based on a snapshot of someone’s day, I hate using my phone when I’m out with my toddler but sometimes I might need a few mins to book tickets and check something online or send an important text. Just like someone’s kid might need the screen for a bit.

We only use screens on long car journeys at the moment. We use public transport a lot and we are constantly learning about what’s happening around us like noises, names of things and chatting to random to random strangers. We have little chats on the wall back from nursery and point out buses and cars and flowers. I think as long as a lot of this stuff happens then screens aren’t that bad sometimes.

I voted YABU mostly because if other people are strangers why does it matter if they are 'shut off from the world'? I find it weird to think its rude but then I live in a city and it isnt commonplace to chat to strangers. As for tablets for entertainment, I don't tend to do this myself 8th mely 3 yr old when out and about as she is interested enough in surroundings. But I bet some kids complain they are bored so in that case I think entertaining them any way that's easiest for parents for a short while is fine?

@Prinnny absolutely there are tailored settings for peer interactions but I’m talking about learning how to be a citizen / member of society / person out in the world. How to share space, respect and uphold boundaries, understand differences, make connections, and so on.

And everything IS a learning experience for babies, toddlers, (& kids teens and even adults) whether parents draw attention to the “lessons” or not children are constantly absorbing information and learning from it.

My toddler always wants to be curious about a child on the next table, show them her teddy, or something, and nine times out of ten they can’t because said child is completely lobotomised in front of an iPad.

this annoys me from the other side, if i'm out with my child, i hate other peoples kids getting in our space, leaning over to our table etc, i always inwardly think why can't the parents control their children to not be rude and interupt other people.

My kids are at teen and pre teen stage so we missed the tablet/phone stage. I understand parents will use any resource to help life be manageable and in some cases they are a great aid to support children with additional needs.

However, I would want to see research into the impact of ongoing exposure to screens - it has to impact on their verbal/social skills.

I hear you OP, I can tell you aren’t judging the scenarios where people have had a shit day or children have additional needs.

The sad fact is there are lazy parents out there and people would rather shoot you down than admit it!

Having your child wander about a restaurant and approach other children with their families is also lazy parenting.