My whole family is full of money grabbers?

[WatermelonSugarRainbow]

This is a long one, so bear with me please.

A bit of a background

I am one of three siblings, my sister is a single mother and my brother (much younger, single) holds an ok job. My parents and siblings live in a small town whilst I moved to London to study and work (20 years ago). I'm the only one in the family to go to uni and hold a 'professional' job.

Over the years, I've always treated my mum and siblings - I would take my mum shopping (cashmere jumpers, linen dresses, perfumes, new mobile phones and even a laptop). I took her to Barcelona (all paid long weekend) for her 60th birthday. I'd also take my family out for dinners (to the pub or pizza express - nothing too fancy) and pick up the bill etc. knowing that they were not able to afford it but I just wanted to spend time with them/strenghten our bond.

We booked a holiday cottage with my sister and invited my mum (splitting the cost between us) but she backed out on the day we were meant to leave because her 'car broke down and it was very expensive to fix' so I just asked her to join us the next day. She drove the next day and never mentioned the car but I ended up paying for the accommodation, with my mum saying that it was too expensive for my sister because she's a single mum (even though she agreed to the cost previous to that). I must admit my dp was very angry about this whole situation.

Since I've had my dd, my mum stayed with us for the first couple months to help and I'm really grateful for that. When I went back to work, I've put dd at nursery. Meanwhile when my sister had her son, my mum looked after him until he was 3yo (for free).

After having my second, I asked if my mum would help me with childcare and nursery drop offs and pick ups. I suggested she moves in with us until my son is ready to start nursery (at 2 years old). She asked that I pay her for childcare and we agreed that I would pay her £500 a month whilst covering her food, accommodation etc.

Both me and my husband hold well paid jobs and on the face of it, we are doing really well but we are 'self made' and have huge monthly expenses - mortgage on an expensive house (good area/schools etc.), car loan, student loans (about to be paid off) and credit card debt that we used when we were decorating the house, so £500 per month for childcare is not an insignificant amount for us but it's obviously less than nursery and we agreed because we felt that she was the best person to look after dc to give us a piece of mind.

Since she started looking after children (6 months ago) I've purchased her a few things as 'gifts' like a smart watch, taken out a phone contract with a new handset for her (her phone was old), covered her travel expenses, expensive trainers etc. All in all about £450 worth of things. She also requested to have a 2 week break in June to go home and rest, so I took annual leave to cover that.

Fast forward to now, we booked and paid for her to come on holiday in Spain (first in 2 yrs) to help with childcare and she agreed to that. She's asked my brother to join us in the villa. (I agreed that me and my brother split the villa cost for my mum evenly). On day one of holiday, both my dp and ds became ill, that's when she told me she was 'on holiday' and wasn't going to help. On day 4, my brother demanded we give him money back as he would/should not pay for my mum. He accused me of ripping him off, took out a hammer and threatened to damage the villa, I ended up asking him to leave and gave him all his money back for his share (£400) even though it was already half way through the holiday, as I didn't feel safe having him around.

My mum took his side and demanded that I pay her for childcare in June (I haven't yet done so, as she 'took 2 week off' to go back to her house and only came back to catch a flight with us) she then told me she no longer wanted to look after my children and accused me of being ungrateful and 'not generous' with my family when I said I've spent so much money on this holiday paying for everyone.

I was so upset, at my lowest point with both my partner and my son sick, I've had zero sleep (sharing bedroom with dc whilst my mum and brother had separate bedrooms), I was up all night giving him medication, he was so grumpy and tired all day. I could have done with help specially in terms of my daughter - just someone to take her out as I was pretty much stuck indoors with ds because of fever. The fact that she took my brothers side (who acted like a psycho) and I feel like I've been nothing but generous towards her.

I'm disappointed - I've agreed to pay her when she didn't ask anything from my sister. All my life, I never got given anything - she gave my sister and my brother money for a deposit - I never said anything but I feel that she expects me to pay for her everywhere - every dinner, every drink, every Christmas.

For my 40th birthday, she stayed overnight with dc so that my partner and I could go away for one night (first time since having children). She was already staying with us and paid to do so and said that was her 'present to me'.

I think what it is, is that I feel that I've been generous and paid for lots of things from my mum, so her to demand last month's payment whilst on a fully paid holiday is a bit 'much'.

I owe her money (£250), should I just give her money I owe her, or should I 'deduct' all the cost for 'gifts' (£450) plus the cost of holiday villa and flights (£500) - meaning we would be all square?

Am I being unreasonable deducting gifts and holidays?

You’ve created a tricky situation with all the lavish gifts whilst also having the expectations that an employer would. Nobody knows where they stand in this situation, clearly.

This. They see you as the family cash cow.

Cut ties. Don't ask for their help and don't give any.

YABU treating your mum like an employee when she is not recieving the benefits of one (like a decent wage, or paid leave). Because that's what you have been doing by the sounds of it. I would be pretty fed up if I was her - work, it sounds, long hours, and being invited on holiday to work more. And being deducted in my already awful wage for having leave.

YABU to say you have never had anything from your mum - ref what she did for you in terms of childcare. That is a hell of a lot. Even if you paid her (a tiny bit).

YANBU to stop paying for stuff for your family. But I agree with others, it sounds a bit like you liked being the rich one. Now I guess it's backfiring. Stop basing your relationship on money, stop exploiting your mum for more or less free childcare and stop putting up with crap from your siblings,

This whole dynamic sounds like it's got a bit out of hand.

You're being very unfair to say that All my life, I never got given anything. Your mother is doing the job of a live-in nanny for below minimum wage - that's a massive gift she's giving you.

You've been generous with gifts/dinners etc in the past, and this will given the impression that you are fairly comfortably off, and as your dd went to nursery, this must have given the impression that you can afford it. You say yourself that you and your DH have well paid jobs. I would assume that your DM gave free childcare to your sister, as she is single, and perhaps would have struggled to afford it?

Perhaps when you asked her for full time childcare for 2 children, she saw this as something you could afford to pay for, and therefore didn't want to have to do this for free? Seems fair enough.

When my DH's brother and his wife had children, they were in low paid jobs and struggling. My MIL gave up full time work to help them out with childcare for two children, took the whole family on holidays (Florida, Tenerife), paid for shopping, heating bills, clothes for the kids, and much more. They never gave us a penny, and when we had kids, we didn't ask for any more than the occasional evening babysitting, which they were happy to give. Because we were in a position that we didn't need to ask (not well off, just worked shifts around the children, which we were lucky in our jobs to be able to do). We have never resented this, because we were (just about) ok financially, whereas DH's brother needed the help at the time. That's just how it goes sometimes.

If you are unhappy with the situation, change it. Get paid childcare elsewhere, let you mum just be a gran, stop with the expensive gifts unless you really want to, and can afford them easily. Don't resent the help your mum has given your sis, perhaps she just really needed it. Reset your relationship with your mum. It just gets too messy and complicated otherwise.

That said, I'd find it hard to deal with your brother, and the hammer! That sounds nuts, and very out of order

If your mother has been doing live in childcare for £500 a month she has been very heavily subsidising your childcare. So you have had help like your sister. Having a child in her own home and doing drop offs to nursery is very different to staying all the time in your home. It leaves her with no private down time. If you are well off separate the gifts you give your mum in your mind from the very cheap childcare you have received. Only give her gifts you really want to from the goodness of your heart. That way you won't feel resentful for what you choose to buy her as a daughter if you think of the £500 for childcare as a separate issue I think you will see that she was being generous to you there and hopefully see the gifts as, in a similar way, you being generous to her. In any event, if I were you I would, without reincriminations, stop the childcare.💐

You get way more help than anyone else. I think you need to clarify and have clearer expectations with your mother

Yep. They use you as a cash cow and you act they're an employee, the help.

I hope you are seeing both sides.

Your DM has helped each of her DC far more than most mothers.

I'm betting she is thinking she'll never take a gift again knowing that the those gift ribbons are actually strings..

Your not buying out of love either, more a holding fee.

The dynamics are messy from all of your family.

You're responsible for your role in causing the mess too.

I wonder if DM is confiding in Dbro to cause his reaction.

I know when my DM felt taken advantage of by one of my siblings she would ring the other to vent about it.

Pay your mum what she asks, and reduce all future contact with her, and bro and sis, to the bare minimum from now on: no expensive gifts, no holidays together, NOTHING. Find alternative childcare and don’t call them or visit them. If they visit you, they can pay their own way and stay in a hotel. They sound like spoiled leeches to me: in many countries, grand parents look after the kids if the parents are working, and don’t expect all the money and presents you’ve lavished on mum. It sounds like SHE’S the “ungrateful” one, and I wouldn’t let her be around her grandchildren alone from now on. And it goes without saying that bro and sis should get the same treatment. You are NOT being unreasonable.

From the holiday debacles it does sound like the rest of your family think you're rolling in money and ought to subsidise them.

But I think your issue with your mum and childcare is a bit different. You have an informal arrangement but your mum has uprooted her life and come to live with you. You take her on holiday "for childcare" but also agree to your brother coming for her sake. The expectations aren't clear and that's caused a clash. Your mum may find your expectations to be much less reasonable than you do.

I can understand it hurts that your mum helps your brother and sister out in ways that give or save them a lot of money and seems to think it's your role to do the same to everyone else too. Your brother and sister probably find it hurtful that your mum seems to think you've done much better than them (even if you don't feel that admiration from her, it almost certainly looks a bit that way to them). I suspect your mum is a bit insecure about money and class as this seems a fairly common (by no means universal) dynamic in British families with one child who does much better. In some family this would give you a lot of power in the family if you wanted it, but it does dominate those relationships. I'm not sure what you can do about it other than stop expecting much from her. Treat her a bit fragile about your success. It's a bit patronising, but you can't change her, only how you treat her.

Get an au pair.

Min contact with your brother. Definitely no holidays.

Insist on payment up front for anything you share in future.

I am amazed at the number of people on here egging the OP on, telling her to cut ties etc with her family, or suggesting that she stops her mother from seeing the grandchildren on her own. Disgusting . Asking her mother to move in for a couple of years to do childcare, expecting her mother to effectively devote her entire life, for the next two years, to OP and her children, and then complaining because the woman didn't want to do childcare on holiday? For £500 a month? I would be interested to hear from the mother. Because, as it stands, I am reading about a woman who thinks that because she earns reasonably well, she can effectively buy her mother's time at a ridiculous price and who sees herself as lady bountiful, keeping her family in check with the gifts etc.

You £125 a week is what my DD used to earn for 2 nights babysitting. Its no where near generous, also to consider claiming back money spent on gifts is appalling.
You shouldn't have asked your DB for money to subsidise your childcare on holiday either.

Your DM
Awful of her not to get you a 40th birthday gift. If she really favours your DSis so much, why on earth do you want her around your children?
Your DB
My God, he threatened to smash the place up with a hammer? I'd never speak to the intimidating bastard again.
Your DC
Poor little things, they sound like they are a problem to everyone.
Your Partner
WTF must they make of this shit show?

You can't cherry pick bits of a culture to suit you. Those same countries probably don't expect women to have worked full time in demanding careers like a lot of British Grandmother's will have done. If you are thinking of Japan, China and Korea there will also be an expectation that the elderly person will be treated like royalty once the time comes that they might need care, at the full expense of their children.

You started this by showering family with expensive gifts you created the monster.
Stop sending and buying them stuff and save your money to pay for nursery for the kids.

I’m guessing you don’t know the cost of childcare these days as this statement is laughable. 😂

she’s saved a small fortune, even with the gifts she’s quids in. And genuinely a fortune. A live in in London is min 500 a week, she’s paying 500 a month, in other areas, over 350, bath with food, lodgings etc on top. the op is cashing it in. And even on those wages live ins do their 8 hours and then get over time, it’s not 24/7. The ops laughing all the way to the bank. She’s even got the woman coming on holiday to provide childcare.

anyone who thinks the op is generous is seriously out of touch with the cost of childcare. Yes the mum suggested 500. But the op didn’t have to only pay that. She could have paid her mother the going rate or even fifty percent of it. She’s literally paying about 25 percent of the going rate and she’s even considering still short changing her.

the op doesn’t want to let the mum go until free hours kicks in becayse it will cost her a small fortune compared to now.

All lines have become very blurred.

They're your children, you don't need childcare when on holiday. Use a nursery etc when at home.

Buy normal £ presents at Xmas and birthdays.

Maybe do one meal a year that you pay for.

This could be a cultural thing.

Either I move in with all of my daughters and daughters in law when they give birth or they move in with me.

Im also convinced there’s a cultural element to this whole situation.

I’m not talking about countries in the Developed World. It goes without saying Mum gets more than the cash she’s paid: she gets the love and care that go with being part of a family.

That's stupid she doesn't need paid a pension her mom probably has one. She paid for £500 plus accommodation, phone and looks like airfare too. Think the mother milking her now she doesn't want to work. So she should pay what owed and find someone since paid someone £500 plus accommodation with food they find someone young wanting get some experience. Her mom will be out £500 plus gifts. Her mom stupid passed all this up. She didn't even have paid rent or anything.

@ktcan we don’t know if the mum kept in her own home during this. I suspect she did.

I don’t think it was that great a deal for the mum. She was paid and treated like an au pair. of course air fare was included - she was expected to work on the holiday! An au pair would have their holiday paid for too. And the brother would not have chipped in!

my mum wouldn’t give up her life and her home for grandchildren. It’s a lot and I think a lot of women have their own lives and interests to pursue. I know I want to join some boards when I retire - not do full time child care on an au pair salary😳.

this whole arrangement seems to have gotten out of hand with OP confusing family with employees and OP’s siblings thinking of her like Santa.

they all need to recalibrate their relationships- and stop thinking about the mum like Cinderella!

I’m sorry, she’s taking the piss. She looked after your sister’s child for 3 years for free? She must be laughing her socks off that you’re paying her plus taking her away on an all expenses paid holiday. I think put your dc in nursery, stop throwing money at her.

What is wrong with your brother, ffs? Threatening to take a hammer to a rented villa?!

You can’t be for real?,you think as she looked after the sisters, whose a single parent’s, child she owes it to the op to move in and care for her and her husbands?

on what planet is that a thing? As the saying goes, you alright hun?😂😂😂

The fact u keep such meticulous details on how much you spent and what you bought for each family member is very telling. It makes you sound more focused on money than family - if that's true, then I bet your family notices it too. In the end you seem to think that paying mum £250 will resolve the matter, I suspect it won't.

If you agreed to pay mum, then pay her. If you are as well off as you say, consider it a gift.

Meanwhile, since your family clearly cannot handle verbal financial agreements, either get future agreements in writing (as in a legal contract), expect to pay for everything yourself, or just don't make such agreements in the first place.

Good luck.

My mum helped me twice , once 2 months, once 3 months. I sorted out my situation as quickly as I could to find suitable childcare. Were I lived, you were on waiting list from before birth to get a place in nursery. That's it. I feel forever grateful. I did give her a modest amount per month that we had agreed upon. An amount superior to what you are giving your mum, that was decades ago. It was simply not reflective of the hours and tender care she gave my kids. I was not skint, I was not paying myself at the time. Childcare stopped everyday the moment I stepped into my house. Did I repay her later on, yes, in money fully, in kind never. What she did selflessly is not quantifiable. Don't use your mum for childcare, you are not paying her enough sorry. This is not paying, this is pocket money. Especially if you can afford childcare. It seems also that she always has to be on the job. You talked about the vacation, how did it work the rest of the year, everyday. Was she on call 24/7 ? That would not be right OP. Let your siblings be, yes they are money grabers. Once your mum returns home the relationship will normalize hopefully. Have a good relationship with your mum. You would not be there - literary - without her. As a woman I feel you all put her through too much. This is crazy. The fighting and the bickering. You want to fix this, calculate how much you really owe her and start repaying her now. Not 250 for sure. Much much much more. And gifts are gifts from the bottom of your heart. They never have a price tag.
Money does a lot of things. One of them is it has a magnifying effect. I hope that you are happy with your findings about yourself, and you can live with what you find in others. All the best.

Ahh to reiterate a gift is a gift... give mum the money then Cut off all of them no more free anything... and only decide to let them back into you and your family life whenever you feel 100.. They are taking advantage of your generosity and truthfully you'll be much better off without the drama.