Britain is not ready for BAME PM

[notnever]

Rishi might just be voted by MPs but will not win general elections. Already we are reminded he is rich, has an US Greencard, cut taxes, unrelatable, wife is rich and did not pay tax, did not declare tax, etc, as if any different from Boris.

Do you think Britain is ready for BAME PM?
Yes = you are unreasonable
No = you are not being unreasonable

NB, you don't have to explain whether it makes Britain racist or not. I am personally happy he is standing for leadership, it will be his good reminder (as many of us BAME know) racism trumps social class.

Even Nadine?

How so?

If you are intelligent and well-educated you are more able to get a high-paying job.

If you have low IQ and no qualifications that option is less available.

It’s no more prejudiced than saying that good basketball players skew towards being taller.

so what about the intelligent but poorly educated? When do they fit in?

In general wealthy people will skew heavily towards being more intelligent and able.

I'm sure we have all met 'Tim/Tara nice but dim many times', not to mention verbose, over-confident average Joes/Josies who think they know it all. Meanwhile, the most intelligent state school students are often failed by an education which allows them to do well enough, but nowhere near reach their full potential.

I can see what that other thread was angling at, 'why isn't racism called out more on Mumsnet?'.

Just the title and premise of this thread is racist. I'll be surprised if it doesn't get pulled. If anyone replies:' No Britain isn't ready for a BAME PM', then they must think ......or assume.....that the bulk of the population in Britain is racist. To make an assumption like that, you must have an idea in your head of on what that prejudice would be based, and have reasons for thinking that such a prejudice could actually exist.

I don't think that sort of prejudice does exist, and I would be seriously concerned about Britain, if it did.

I predict that Sunak will win the party endorsement, and start serving in the role of PM, before October, and with Sajid Javid as his deputy. I think that something even more damaging, to do with Sunak's finances and personal tax, will then come out and scupper his chances and he'll resign.. Javid will take over as PM and be a fantastic one, showing the skills which enabled him to rise from a modest background to a senior role in investment banking. The fact that he went to a state school will play well with the electorate. For the Tories to stay in power, though, they will need to get together a brilliant strategy to beat fuel poverty.

You don’t believe that the more intelligent pupils at your school came out with better results, on average, than the less intelligent ones?

No! And nor does any sane person. Some were undoubtably more intelligent .Some of the people with the best results came from households that paid for tutors, had houses large and comfortable enough to have private study space and opportunities to resources like books and trips that help.
Some intelligent children won’t achieve what they could because they are sharing bedrooms, helping out at home and have parents with other issues.

Wealthy people tend to be elected because of what I said earlier. We don’t like angry politicians pointing out the problems. We like leaders that support a broad church.and look like they can handle life.

Not being a conservative, I don’t get a say in who will lead the party but in all honesty, they could be sky blue pink and I wouldn’t care as long as they can deal with the mess the country is currently in.

I did think Sunak was a sure thing for taking over from Bojo - the furlough scheme really helped so many people but I think that has been forgotten due to his wife’s tax “situation.”

In my social circle I genuinely don’t think I know of anyone who would vote based on a candidate’s colour. I could be wrong, but people’s race, colour or religion are never mentioned.

I think UK is ready for this... but ONLY if they are right wing. I saw a post on Tweet going 'Well it looks like the tories are going to have the first female PM and the first non-white PM and the Left really need to be asking why'

But the answer is obvious: society generally find leaders who are female or people of colour acceptable if they're towards the right; after all, they got there by supporting the white, male power structure; they'd have been booted out long before had they support critical race theory, meaningful feminism etc.

IN the US Obama obviously something of an exception, but note how he had to steer clear of race issues, and also from gun control, lest he be portrayed as 'Look, the blacks are taking our guns away!' (when you consider a lot of the laxness of gun law stems from racism).

But the answer is obvious: society generally find leaders who are female or people of colour acceptable if they're towards the right; after all, they got there by supporting the white, male power structure; they'd have been booted out long before had they support critical race theory, meaningful feminism etc.

I’d not thought of it that way before but I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Reflecting their values makes them ‘one of the good ones of <insert group>’ and distances them from those scary people who think differently and that they should be entitled to the same opportunities.

(also see Raab implying Rayner was a champagne socialist for attending some posh opera, the implication being it wasn’t for the likes of her).

Seems a negative take on diversity

If the left can’t do the same it’s good we have one side where it’s possible

I’m only seeing negativity re this from the left atm

I don't think so. If you're right-leaning or a conservative voter, it doesn't mean you're thinking they're 'one of the good ones', you're just supporting a candidate that believes the same as you!

The type of people who are that against black and Asian people in power will not be supporting them, period. You can't paint everyone the same, that's not accurate.

Being right leaning and traditional is often used as a stick to beat black and Asian communities with, they don't see it as desirable at all. Islamophobia, for a start.

I would like to think that Rishi would be elected. He is very rich but so is David Cameron. Although Rishi is much richer, after a certain point it loses its meaning (£3 bn vs. £50m - once people have wealth about about £15 m it almost doesn’t matter how much they have).

He is quite smooth but perhaps it would be refreshing to have a PM who doesn’t do and say mad things.

Basically, they type of person who really doesn't like black and brown people (to the point they're unelectable) isn't going to be swayed by that. They just still won't like them, they can never win.

I wouldn't vote for him for many of the same reasons I didn't vote for Boris

@offyoufuckcuntychops I am not negating my point. I am saying, even before campaigning started we were already reminded of why Rishi is not suitable. Many of the reasons pointed out, weren't any different from Boris.

To prove my point, this thread started with Rishi is wealthy - so unrelatable, but so is Boris - then it moved on to he is too wealthy, rather Sajid - knowing fully Sajid does not stand a chance. Responses on here are an example of shifting goal posts for anyone who is not white.

Boris is racist and but the majority know it and voted for him (yes, I know I will be reminded they voted for Tory not Boris - it's typical racist gaslighting I'm used to)

Personally, I think this thread is “testing the waters”- market research as to how he will be received.

One great advantage he has is that everyone knows him and as yet we know very little about some of the other candidates.

So the others need to increase their visibility pretty fast!

It's literally not a black and white issue, though. It certainly is naive to think that it boils down to 'If he was white, he could have gotten away with it, but as he is 'BAME' he won't get elected'.

He is actually frontrunner for election DESPITE all of those things you mention. I will be very interested in your response when he - as is looking more inevitable - wins this candidacy. But I'm sure you'll find another way to twist it to your 'white moving the goalposts of racism' agenda anyway...

Boris and Rishi each have their own faults, but they're certainly not a list of identical comparators, with the one difference of skin colour. Now, seems even Boris' skin colour hasn't saved him from being disempowered by his own party...

Leadership elections always bring heavy scrutiny onto the candidates running. You'll find that EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is receiving heat in the press for things they have done and said. That is the press' job to tear them apart to prove that they are worthy candidates to run a country. Mordaunt is receiving heavy criticism in relation to women's/trans rights, for example. Absolutely no one is protected from proper due scrutiny and failings because they happen to be white, which you are conveniently overlooking.

There's been some fascination commentary on left/right ideology and representation in this thread, which is far more interesting to sink your teeth into but which you are not addressing as it doesn't fit in with your narrow view.

In short, you're talking a lot of bollocks.

Yabu your post has nothing g to do with BAME and to be honest at this point it doesn't really matter who the PM is because it's the same party and they are all as dodgy as each other. I think I'm at the point where I'm stopping following and will wait for the next GE. Whoever the next PM is it isn't going to get better!

That's two different questions.
I would have said that the US would have had a female president well before a black one, and I was totally shocked when Obama won.
I think it's totally possible for Britain to have a BAME PM, maybe just not the one you mention.

Yes. I couldn't put my finger on it and think you are right.

Can we please stop viewing every major topic through the prism of skin colour and racism.

Is the UK ready for a PM of BAME background - yes I think it is.
Is the UK ready for a PM who was responsible for completely shafting the Uk economy with his Covid spending - NO.
Is the UK ready for a PM whose wealth and who has demonstrated he has absolutely no idea how normal people are struggling - NO
Is the UK ready for a PM while wife whilst not breaking any rules certainly avoided taxes - NO.
Is the country ready for a man who only resigned because Javid who at least has form for integrity and principle went first and he feared Javid would have the edge on him for PM.

But I guess that if Sunak doesn't get to be PM there will be many who will say it's because of his skin colour (because it suits their own beliefs) rather than he didn't get the job because he was a shit Chancellor.

Javid will take over as PM and be a fantastic one, showing the skills which enabled him to rise from a modest background to a senior role in investment banking

Are these the same "skills" he showed as Health Secretary by not giving a penny extra to adult social care workers? perhaps the same skills shown when he voted for and defended a 12billion tax hike just a few months ago but now says it should be scrapped?
Telling us that his (ex) dept is building 40 new (imaginary) hospitals? and finally becoming a brexitier & defending Brexit, a policy he was vehemently against?

Don't know about you but in RL, very very few remainers have become Brexitiers, well none actually.

I'd take a look at how Javid made his money.

He is an opportunist, like most of the rest of them.

Not saying you're racist or not. I don't know you to judge.

They are not family you chose you had no choice to them being in your family. But why is the reference to having POC in your family (or friends) a sign that you're not racist?

I always wondered this, most POC see this reference as a closer sign to you being what you claim you are not.

Not saying you're racist or not. I don't know you to judge.

They are not family you chose you had no choice to them being in your family. But why is the reference to having POC in your family (or friends) a sign that you're not racist?

I always wondered this, most POC see this reference as a closer sign to you being what you claim you are not.

Why on Earth are people so sure that the UK can’t handle a person of colour as Prime Minister when the US, which is demonstrably more racist than the UK, managed to vote in Obama?
Voting for Brexit did not necessarily mean the voter was doing it for racist reasons. A lot of people that I know who have admitted to voting Leave have said it was a protest vote against what they saw was the amount of money we were putting in compared to what we were getting out, nothing to do with immigrants.

Mummy I don't understand your point to the poster above.

Obviously we never choose family?
It sounds like she is merely saying her core family of siblings is open to diversity?
But your trying to put her back into a box you want to keep her in? She can't win?

I also however think it's slightly meaningless! Because these movements are more about class than anything else.