Will I be able to return to U.K. life

[Blippimakesyouhyper]

Have lived abroad for many years, travelled lots etc. We’re due to return to live in the U.K. after Christmas. Mainly due to wanting dc, 3 to be closer to grandparents and have British schooling.
The lifestyles are worlds apart, between both places, both places have their negatives & positives.
I just really thought about it the other day when we were attending a friends birthday party, nearly all dads were there too aswell as mums…it was a random Tuesday in the middle of the day. It was hot and sunny, cocktails, playing in the pool etc.
When we go back, we don’t have the same job flexibility as many do here and I can’t see Dh being off in the middle of the day and attending parties and so on.
Beginning to worry I’ll feel trapped and hemmed in

I don't think I could move back to the UK. I've been 22 years living in a different European country and it is my home. My kids have grown up here, school system is fine pros and cons like any country at a guess, university is a lot cheaper though!
I do get pangs of guilt that I don't live close to my parents and that they've missed out on the every day stuff of my kids growing up. We have also missed out on things my family has done together, which is bit rubbish but not enough to make me want to live in the UK.
When the kids were little I used to rent a house for the summer close to my parents and we'd spend a lot of time with them, we are close enough in distance to do that without breaking the bank. My kids are young adults now, they go on there own to visit their grandparents sometimes which is really nice for.
I have a nice life here, great job and friend group so I'm happy and don't feel the need to return to the UK, I'm settled where i am and I suspect would suffer from a huge culture shock. I'm lucky that I have siblings that live close by to my parents so they have support when needed.
Ageing parents is a difficult one, I can imagine you feel a combination of duty/guilt. It's a tough decision to make. But don't forget about yourself and your family what do you guys want to really do.

Where do you live? I lived abroad for 5 years in Portugal, I'd wanted to come back for a while but kept putting it off. It honestly was the fest decision I'd ever made. I've been back on holiday a couple of times now (doesn't actually feel like a holiday place to me anymore 😭) and don't regret it at all.
Reasons that kept me there:
. I LOVED my job, if I could do it again tomorrow I would
. Had a car on finance
. Owned 2 dogs
. Really enjoyed the life style and the fact there were beaches close by
. The weather
Unfortunately my ex got to keep the dogs, I sorted the car out and that was it

My advice would be to stay where you are. Don't come back for the state education system here, it's underfunded and there are many teacher shortages.

DH and I have been having the same conversation recently, and we've decided to stay abroad a bit longer. I could easily find work back in the UK, but DH not so much, he'd have to retrain. However, my salary would be lower than what it is now, and housing costs & bills higher, especially with the predicted price increases. Financially, it'd be doable, but a pretty frugal life for a few years. Compared to what we have now, it just didn't seem very appealing.

What clinched it for me was my friend's comment that the UK will always be there. Sure, it's more difficult once your child is in school, but I have lots of friends who've moved internationally with primary aged children and after a sometimes challenging few months the kids all seem to settle in. Is there anything preventing you from moving back in 2/5/10 years' time? If not, then why not just stay overseas a bit longer until you feel more ready to go back?

Personally I think the OP’s snapshot of the U.K. far from being dated is spot on. Materialism, houses prices, home improvements, celebrities, TV, are national obsessions - see also the royal family, the state of the NHS and the Tory party. Of course you can find friends who are not like that, but there will always be people around wanging on. The British don’t realise how materialist the U.K. is compared to other countries. (I’m British myself but have lived elsewhere).

The real crunch OP could be that in order to live comfortably in the south, in order to maintain a lifestyle comparable to what you have now, you will need significantly more more money. And significant equity.

Without knowing your financial circumstances it’s hard to say - you may be very well off - but otherwise downsizing + expensive mortgage to maintain a relatively small place could be one of the biggest shocks.

Decent food here is more expensive. Waitrose and delis have good stuff but pricey. In S.Europe you can buy amazing fruit and veg in the local markets.

Also Brexit + Covid + war has broken the economy. Our farmers are set to lose their CAP subsidies by 2024, which make us more reliant on imported food, driving up food prices further.

Oh and don’t forget you have to pay for university here. Your kids access to free uni education and not starting out life with a debt round their neck is significant advantage, as is freedom of movement - to live and work in any EU country they want.

If it’s mainly about spending time with your parents could they not live with you for a few months of the year?

Dh and I moved to where we now live because his Dh was diagnosed with cancer and he wanted to spend more time with him because he thought he wouldn’t be around for long. 24 years later we are all still here (FIL included) living in a part of the country that isn’t great and probably not seeing much more of PIL than we would have if we still lived three hours away in our former pretty costal town.

I lived outside of the U.K. for 44 years. Got married abroad, had my children abroad, educated them at a Brit school abroad. Youngest is about to do her last year at a U.K. university. We didn’t move back to the U.K. I just couldn’t face it. Happy staying out of country. We are nearer now than we used to be. And flights are cheaper. But I’m not moving back.

If you're happy, I would stay where you are.

You said you're somewhere in Europe - if you specifically want children to have a British education, send them to an English speaking school which follows the British curriculum. (Personally, I'd also re-think this, if I were you - it's not that great and, although improving, Britain still isn't at the top of the Pisa tests - www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/pisa_19963777).

It is hard when parents get older, but this is not reason enough to move back.
I would ask if they'd consider moving to wherever you are!

The UK will be different to what you remember (you will be too, as will your expectations); every country changes. My own experience is that the UK is a terrible place to be old, a child, a woman, a foreignor, sick, or a person with disabilities.

Why not do a few long recces to see whether it would suit? Rent a short-term flat, live in an area you'd be able to afford to buy/rent in if you were to move back, arrange visits to see local schools and discuss the curriculum and outcomes, look up healthcare services in that area etc.

OP is in Europe if you read her posts more carefully.

This post is a neat encapsulation of what you’d be coming back to, OP: Knee-jerk defensiveness to any criticism of the U.K., followed by detailed discussion of house prices, showing off about second homes, and general snottiness about anywhere seen as culturally inferior.

If I had that life I wouldn’t come back to the uk , it’s a horrid place.
can’t your parents move to you in their elderly years?

This.

Haven't read the whole thread and not sure where you live, but I come from a warm, cheap country where I could sit around by the pool all day and not even have to work because we could get by on one salary. I could have nannies and staff if I wanted to and attend parties all day. I could have a massive house as well. But frankly, I can't think of anything more boring.

I am in London and I don't watch TV all day, shop or do up my house. I spend most of my time going to the great museums, art galleries, shows, and talks and I hang out with people who enjoy those things. I have zero interest in the royal family; most of my friends are cosmopolitan types who don't care about them either. My life isn't luxurious, but it is full and rich.

Why is the UK "horrid"?

Gah! By "fuel" I meant gas and electric not petrol! Sorry if that was confusing!

The UK will be different to what you remember (you will be too, as will your expectations); every country changes. My own experience is that the UK is a terrible place to be old, a child, a woman, a foreignor, sick, or a person with disabilities.

Couldn't disagree with this more, and I am 3 of these things, plus have DC, so four! I find native British people are always so hard on this country.:) But I am not going to argue about it.

It isn't easy to move elderly parents to where you are, and harder post Brexit.

Why do you want to come back to the UK for schooling? If you're in another European country, isn't the education system where you are just as good, if not better? The British education system is an absolute mess, with no sign of it getting any better (it'll probably get worse tbh). Most other European countries have better systems than is (better outcomes, smaller class sizes etc). Unless you're planning on private education in the UK, there is no way I'd come back for the schooling!

@Blippimakesyouhyper I'm not an ex pat, but I'm a northerner living in the midlands. What I would say, is I don't have any materialistic friends. You just need to interview them on your return! Half joking. You will find your tribe, and be fine.

I think there are many factors that affect how you settle / re-settle.

We're childless and live between the UK and another European country. I like living in both (I'm the Brit in the relationship) but neither feels like home. I think we've lived in so many different places now that nothing will ever actually feel like home.

I do think children are one of the factors that affect how you feel though, so hopefully you will quickly feel settled.

What you need to accept is nowhere on earth is perfect & no-one 'has it all'.

If we are going to talk about doing and gloom then yes, if that's your mindset it is best not to come back to the UK at all. After all, it's a democracy where women and girls have rights and where your skin colour or nationality doesn't automatically define you unlike in the Middle East or Japan.

China has a massive trade surplus with the rest of the world and usually, when a country has that amount of wealth, they flex their muscles more politically as well as economically.

They have been laying low for a reason. Russia too, another dictatorship, authoritarian regime, while rich in natural resources, do not really have to bother with the Western democracies and are showing their contempt with the slow stranglehold of Ukraine.

India, another nuclear power, also a dictatorship, have no interest in human rights for all and no interest in women's rights whatsoever alongside China and Russia and the Middle East, and vast tracts of Asia and Africa.

So yes, my point is the future is going to be more hemmed in and restricted due to an imminent escalation of global instability given that Ukraine grain feeds a third of the world and when this is disrupted, the countries that are not able to support their populations are going to be see an exodus on a scale never seen before; and alongside climate change, there is currently a lull before the storm.

Chinese, Russian and Indian politics, values and ways of life will dictate the future and democracies and women's rights will be viewed as a quaint tiny blip in history.

There are billions of people in the world and hundreds of countries where the mindset is as undemocratic as you can get, where gays and women have absolutely no rights and no say whatsoever. Europeans and their democracies and freedoms, especially of speech don't even number tiny fraction of this global total.

Given that the privileged days of European freedom are numbered, does that make your decision easier to make as to where you want to be op especially if you have dc?

I am the other way around Moved to the UK many years ago and when I go back now I can't imagine returning. DH now wants to but I am reluctant.

Apologies for banging on about this OP, but I've just read your posts, and you say you "know the British education system well". No, no you do not know the current British Education system at all, it is not the education system it was 20 years ago. It's an absolute shit show, it has been completely trashed. We've gone backwards whereas other countries have progressed. And you'd be coming back at absolutely the worst time, we won't have any qualified teachers left soon, and then who knows who will teach our children? The Tories solution to this problem was to introduce legislation so schools can be staffed with cheap, unqualified teachers. Like I said, unless you're going private, I'd run an absolute marathon away from UK schools. You say the country you're in has a good education system, whereas no-one in their right might would describe the current UK system as "good". Don't do it.

Sorry to derail, but can I just ask those of you who did move abroad, how long did it take to learn the language if you had to learn it for the purpose of working there? I'm not sure where I even want to go, I have been toying with the idea for a while and it was more of an afterthought, but this week's political events and economic predictions have been the final straw.

I am starting to think I want to live abroad for a while, just for the experience and to find a better life. Realistically I am going to have to put a lot of hard work and research into this and now with Brexit this is much more difficult.

It would be ironic if this country was complaining of emigration soon rather than immigration, although emigration has been made pretty difficult now too.

We lived abroad for ten years and came back two years ago. It was a mistake. I wanted to come back for the grandparents and to be fluent in the local language once we had kids (I wasnt born in the UK but parents live here). Honestly, it's not worth it. Yes, our parents see a lot more of us but honestly so what. We do have a much worse lifestyle here and our kids' life is also a lot worse.

Life in the UK (I live in London) is a lot tougher and a lot less fun. People talk about houses and careers because its so hard to maintain a half decent standard of living especially if you are a professional and expect it. Because you know being able to buy decent food and live in a decent house is a reasonable expectation in Europe for a professional couple. The fact that it isn't in the UK - is weird. The fact that the only people who can do that - bought their houses back in the mythical 90s or work in tech, city, law, medicine is just weird. Or at least it's weird having lived in Europe for a while and expect to have a nice life because you have a decent job.

The UK has become a strange hybrid. Public services are terrible but private ones not as widespread as say in America i.e. employers don't generally pay for private healthcare, salaries are too low for private schooling. In comparison to America or Europe it is therefore the worst of both worlds. But once you have kids and elderly parents it matters a lot less that the opera is lovely when your kids dont have a permanent teacher (because who on earth can afford to work here) and your parents need an ambulance but cant get one.

So in practice, if you want to help your parents - travel to see them more often or send them cash for private treatments, but don't move back.