Holiday problem with SD's mum

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

I have another thread which goes in to the bigger issues, but this is the current scenario and I'd really like opinions. This is my other thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/stepparenting/4574123-holiday-issuespassport. This issue will be before court next week as part of a bigger issue of not handing passport over or agreeing handover times or the rest of the division of holiday dates.
We booked a holiday for the summer holidays with mums agreement. Return flight is 22.10 with us landing 02.30. Mum has now gone this week and booked a holiday TO THE SAME BLOODY DESTINATION on the same day we return knowing our dates/times already. Mum is saying she wants SD handed back over at 10.30am. Given current airport issues, delays etc we don't even know if we will be in the country at 10.30am!! But even if we arrive back at 02.30 it will be 5am at the earliest before we reach our beds. SD is 5. And she is expecting us to get her up at 9am and make the hour journey with her. It won't be safe for DP to drive for one, let alone fair on SD to have 4 hours or less sleep and then go back to the airport and fly back to the same bloody place.
What a mess. What should DP be asking in court? He had been planning to ask for handover times to be 9am the day before travel, handover 6pm the day we get home. Realistically if she is flying at 16.35 (which is what she is claiming, but when we checked there aren't even any flights to the destination at that time on that day - but there is the following day!!!) she needs SD back by 12pm. But I know I wouldn't be happy with it being that late on the day of travel. We are flying at 14.50 and we're leaving for the airport at 09.30 and having a big brunch in a pub nearby before going to the airport for the 3 hours before our flight time.Me and DP are just going round in circles with what to do. Please can the wise mumsnetters give some sage advice here. SD has been shoved in the middle of mums weird games again, and all we want to do is to do right by her. But her mum is making the situation beyond difficult.

you just tell the court what time youre coming back and you cant drop her till later on she'll either have proof of her booking (which you say is impossible) or just back down

if she calls the police on the day they wont do anything i assume he has parental reposnbility-literally nothing they can do except advise her to go to court which will take days anyway-stop doing what she says all the time

She might, but he won't. He hasn't done anything wrong, has tried to negotiate and met a brick wall. His position is that his DD comes first. If she truly does have a flight that day, he will meet her at the airport 3 hours before the flight. I would hope the judge see that as reasonable. But if she doesn't, then his position remains that an evening handover is in SDs best interest.
Neither party are represented. The judge will make an order based on what they both say/evidence.

She can walk all over us because she is the resident parent who holds all the power. The courts enable this. She just refuses contact if he said that. Then SD wouldn't be going on holiday with us.
Court doesn't do much about the breaches. Each time she has just been told not to do it again essentially.
She also likes to make lies up and involve social services.
So no, he has to be very careful.

What exactly does your court order say? Just trying to understand the grey area you are trying to navigate.

I haven't got it here, but it is basically school holidays equal division 50/50 starting from when the time school finishes until it begins again in no more than 1 week blocks unless agreed by parents with the expectation that this moves to 2 weeks to allow for holidays.
There are no dates ordered. Nothing about passport.

Why is a family who doesn’t have £120 spare going on holiday?

Why are you even involved surely its up to your DH and his ex to sort. Leave them to it (oh and you can add a driver for just a few Quid for a day but you do seem hell bent on not paying out a small amount extra)

I've already written that my dad is taking us on the holiday, or we wouldn't be going.
We are moving house to give SD her own room as her mother's demand. That is why we don't have spare money. And anyway, even if I did, I wouldn't be spending £100 on such ridiculousness.

@ThisMustBeMyDream I know you have. But don’t you have any contingency fund?

I can't add him to my policy for a few quid extra. If it was that simple, he'd be on there.

And why am I involved? Well, it is my holiday too. Paid for by my dad. And anyway, I'm supporting DP, not leaving him to bottle up his problems which will do no good at all. A problem shared is a problem halved. And this is most definitely a problem.

Contingency for what? To waste unnecessarily? No. Contingency for house move? Yes.
£100 is a lot of money to pay because someone else doesn't want to put their child first. If she wants to pay it, then sure. But she doesn't. And anyway, it still isn't relevant because her position isn't moving.

So you do have £120 for the hotel then. You just don’t want to pay it. Be honest.

Breath....

DP goes in, asks for the passport and then with evidence provides the landing times.

DP then states he believes its in the best interest of the child to be returned at 6pm, having had rest and food in preparation for the hand over.

It's then up to the other party to present evidence of why a 6pm drop off is not suitable. If she states I have a holday booked for the drop off day with a flight leaving at 16:35.

Then DP counters with 3 options.

Mother can collect from airport upon landing and the passport handed back in preparation for the departure later in the day.

Mother collects from DP house at say 1pm in preparation for the flight and to hand back passport. As it's in the child's best interest to have some sleep and rest and food before departing on another flight.

3rd and final option is DP returns child to the airport in time for departure at say 1pm. Again in the child's best interest to have some sleep and food before another airport departure.

Leave it to the judge after that.

Mum either way is going to have to drive to airport or DP's house.

She can do the legwork.

If mum counters with dropping child off at 10:30am to her. DP counters with he does not believe 3hours sleep is in the best interest of the child when the other available option can give her a 7hour or so sleep in preparation for travel.

Simple. Let the judge decide.

Grey areas are painful.
in your shoes with court case looming I’d advise giving mum an either /or choice.
Eg Either she picks up direct from the airport or your partner drops them off at a proposed time that allows everyone a bit of sleep.
At least that’s way your partner continues to show reasonableness. Courts love reasonable parents!
Good luck!

Court ‘date’ looming!

I'm sorry you're all in this situation OP. Sounds a nightmare, I'm not sure the holidays is worth this stress!

So in court your DH states that your flight lands at 2.30am (provides evidence) and he will be taking a tired girl home to sleep.
He states he will return her to the airport 3 hours before her next flight.
Then he asks IN COURT for the details of the flight, time, airline etc.
So he looks to get the agreement for handover at airport 3 hours before the flight, at whatever time that is.
And he holds out for being given the flight details.

That could put the mother in situation of lying to the court if the flights don't actually exist

If it was i would just state the time yous want to take dsd home (6pm) and let her mum make an absolute arse of herself by requesting an earlier drop off time because she has went and booked a holiday leaving that same day. I have a controlling, manipulative ex just like this who has 3 court orders on him and the best thing to do is throw the worry and stress back at her. Let her decide how she is going to get her daughter back by 10.30am that day. Yous state your pick up time of 6pm and if that's not what she wants then that's her problem.

Wow, so courts are having to spend time sorting this stuff out. Its like a playground.

You send a message " barring plane delays, we will be back home at 5am on the Xth. Please let us know what time you want to collect SD."

I have a 50:50 court ordered agreement with a difficult Mum.

Court ordered times are 08:30 changeover on half terms dates, ie, the same time we would hand over a child to school.

You’re going to have to try and work something out, I think a family court is going to see you as unreasonable to be honest, you knew the kid had to be back for handover and you chose flights that land in the early morning.

I’m coming home from a holiday earlier with the kids because my court ordered agreement is 08:30. That’s the way it is, if I don’t stick to it then why should the other party and I have zero legs to stand on in court because I would be being unreasonable.

The reasons the majority are not possible are because of the mother, not us!
We are trying to come up with a reasonable solution to present to court, not the mother as she won't compromise.

Eh?

The reasons you've given:

• Step daughter will be too tired to get up early
• You will be too tired to drive
• Your husband can't drive because adding him to insurance would be £58 (later clarified that you can afford it but don't want to spend it)
• You can't afford a hotel (ditto)
• It'd be an "awful round trip" to drop step daughter straight off

Then you say step daughter's mother wouldn't accept her home any time before 10:30am. But you "can't" do it anyway, so she isn't the one causing the problem.

I hope you'll all get a bollocking from the judge for being so stubborn.

@ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave me too!! I feel sorry for the poor girl stuck in the middle of these childish, pathetic “adults”

How on earth being too tired to drive is in a child’s best interest is beyond me. I’m going to assume it’s a phrase they’ve heard somewhere else and have decided to use.

Not sure what the point of posting was, loads of people have made good suggestions but you're dismissing them all. It's a pain in the arse whatever happens but you need to choose the least worst option and suck it up

• Step daughter will be too tired to get up early
• You will be too tired to drive

And this is because the father has chosen to take 5 yr old on a flight which lands at 2.30am and she won't get home to bed until nearly 5am.
Crazy flight times for a young child, particularly when he knows she has to be returned to her mother that day

Am I missing something? You'll just have to get up and drive?