Holiday problem with SD's mum

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

I have another thread which goes in to the bigger issues, but this is the current scenario and I'd really like opinions. This is my other thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/stepparenting/4574123-holiday-issuespassport. This issue will be before court next week as part of a bigger issue of not handing passport over or agreeing handover times or the rest of the division of holiday dates.
We booked a holiday for the summer holidays with mums agreement. Return flight is 22.10 with us landing 02.30. Mum has now gone this week and booked a holiday TO THE SAME BLOODY DESTINATION on the same day we return knowing our dates/times already. Mum is saying she wants SD handed back over at 10.30am. Given current airport issues, delays etc we don't even know if we will be in the country at 10.30am!! But even if we arrive back at 02.30 it will be 5am at the earliest before we reach our beds. SD is 5. And she is expecting us to get her up at 9am and make the hour journey with her. It won't be safe for DP to drive for one, let alone fair on SD to have 4 hours or less sleep and then go back to the airport and fly back to the same bloody place.
What a mess. What should DP be asking in court? He had been planning to ask for handover times to be 9am the day before travel, handover 6pm the day we get home. Realistically if she is flying at 16.35 (which is what she is claiming, but when we checked there aren't even any flights to the destination at that time on that day - but there is the following day!!!) she needs SD back by 12pm. But I know I wouldn't be happy with it being that late on the day of travel. We are flying at 14.50 and we're leaving for the airport at 09.30 and having a big brunch in a pub nearby before going to the airport for the 3 hours before our flight time.Me and DP are just going round in circles with what to do. Please can the wise mumsnetters give some sage advice here. SD has been shoved in the middle of mums weird games again, and all we want to do is to do right by her. But her mum is making the situation beyond difficult.

I understand that this whole situation is very frustrating, but unless a miracle happens in your court case which is specifically to ask for passports and rule on your holiday not your SDs mums holiday, you are going to have to find a way to get a tired 5 yr old to her mum by 10.30am after getting off a flight at 2.30am.

Your choices are:

All of you drive home together, get home for 3am, in bed for 3.30am then your partner gets up and wakes up tired 5yr old at 9am. Drives her home then drives himself home and tries to get back to sleep. All without waking anyone else in your house.

Or

All of you have a slightly circuitous route home dropping SD at her mums on the way. Get home for 4am, in bed for 4.30am, wake up whenever you want.

Obviously any plan you make could be ruined by late planes or delays with baggage but you can't plan specifically for those. Presumably if you were hours and hours late home then you'd be potentially able to just hand over at the airport or the mums flight could even be missed if you were very very delayed.

Our house isn't on the way. If you drew a line with the houses, the airport is almost in the middle.

"She won't do the journey. And tbh on the day she is going on holiday, well I wouldn't want to add that in to my day either. But even so, she just won't. She expects DP to run around to her whims."

What does the order say about who does the travel for exchanges? I mean .. if she's being this difficult and you just flat out refuse to drive DSD to her but make her available for a reasonable time, what is she really going to do? She can't force your DP into a car.

Could your husband message her and suggest she brings evidence of the holiday to the court hearing to support her request?

DP could ask the court that his ex collects DSD from your house at 9am.

Add DP to your insurance? It’s usually very cheap for a second driver.
As frustrating as it is, I’m not sure the court will be very happy with all your reasons not to do it.
Taking her straight home from the airport is the most logical solution. I wouldn’t worry about DDs sleep, she will sleep on the plane.
If your safe enough to drive from the airport then your safe enough to drop her home. Once she’s dropped off then you can sleep without worrying about getting up on time and doing the drive.

No way would we be home for those times. I've said it will be more like 5am by the time we have luggage, got through security, airport, shuttle bus to car, and travel home.

It isn't reasonable to travel to mums in the middle of the night on no sleep. I'm not prepared to do it either. If DP wanted to take her when we got home that is on him, but he won't as like me he doesn't want a long journey when on no sleep.

I've previously said her mum wouldn't agree to it anyway. She has dug her heels in on 10.30am. So it isn't even in the options to drop in the middle of the night.

You say she won’t but it’s not unreasonable to ask. You’re talking to the judge, not her, and all you can do is put forward reasonable suggestions. It’s not up to you to decide that she won’t if it’s already going to court.

It is over £100 to add him to my insurance, so again, not possible.

When I say she won't, I mean it has already been in text messages between them this evening when he has been trying to find solutions. She won't. She just won't answer the door, and that is what she has always been like. We would be wasting our time even if it was ordered. She would expect us to go home and return at the time SHE wants. And then ring the police if we weren't there.

Not true: a judge can change everything and anything including taking the passports off the mother and if she refuses then to take the kids off the mother. The judges in family court can do anything they want. OP Id advise your husband to stick to the facts, show correspondence as evidence and concentrate at all times on the child. Bring up the salient points and allow mother to respond and the judge, if reasonable (they are very often not) will see it for what it is.

Oh and if there are text messages saying she wont hand over the children or will stop the children going for contact or will cause difficulties then the judge can, and will, make sure the child is with your husband to go on holiday and so you better make sure that if the judge says something like this your husband can take time off work or arrange childcare for this.

I would cancel the big brunch in a pub and eat at home. Then use the money towards insuring him on your car.

Also and I mean this kindly, with the way things are at the moment with cancelled flights and huge delays, where you'll need to pay upfront and claim money back on insurance if needed, if you've not got a spare £100 then you might be in a bit of bother if you get delayed too.

My sister was delayed in Turkey for 2 days and they spend over £800 on taxis, hotels and food for the 5 of them. Trying to claim it back now.

Use Veygo. We use it for short periods of insurance on our car for our children when home from University. About £25 will get you 48 hours.

Not a solution to the problem but a cheap, short term insurance so,union.

My dad will cover any of those kind of costs.
The brunch is instead of having lunch in the airport to save money, but still allow us to be near the airport in case of issues with roads or airport problems on the day. We can get there quickly if needs be, unencumbered by traffic delays. We also get a friends and family discount for the food, so it will be circa £30. Bargainous.

Just tried that, still £58.

As much as I would share your frustration about the mother - she sounds like a nightmare - you do sound to be making a bit of a meal of the "driving through the night with no sleep" part. You've got a what, 4 hour flight? And it's 90 minutes to drive her home? Have a siesta/late nap before you head to the airport and sleep on the plane. All go home together and after another 3-4 hours sleep, your DP drives his daughter home. The transportation bit is really not that big of a deal.

Not possible. Ds has asd/autism. He needs constant supervision. He wouldn't nap in the afternoon even if we had a room beyond 3pm (late checkout is 3pm). I wouldn't leave DP with him plus 2 other kids to do that either. It wouldn't be safe.
Again, the children won't sleep on the plane (my two haven't on our previous night flights, not even on the car drive home). DS will need constant supervision, DP and SD are on a separate row to us due to the plane lay out.

If I thought I could, or they would, sleep on the plane I'd not be here asking for advice.

Jeez - your husband needs to emphasise this in court - unexpected occurrences and changes to routine can be damaging for asd people. He needs to take proof of this, and state how this is important to his child's well being. If the child's mother doesn't give a shit about this then the court needs to it. I can only imagine that the child getting off a flight only to go right back to where they were is going to be absolutely crazy unless there is much preparation for that situation. Sleep routines are also very important. If your step child's parents cant see this and sort it out between themselves then hopefully when all evidence is placed before the courts they will stop all this that will inevitably be affecting the child.

The police wouldn't do anything anyway. So let her ring away.

I would just tell the mum that your DP will not be driving SD to her house after a few hours sleep so, if she wants SD to go on holiday with her on that day, she will need to pick her up at the airport or sort something else out. End of. When she says "dance", just don't dance.

Honestly OP, this seems a little bit dramatic over what is a basic issue. You tell SDs mum that if she needs her at 10:30am, she will need to pick up as it's not feasible for you to drop off given flight times. If that doesn't work, you will drop off at 2pm or whatever. I really just wouldn't continue the narrative with her. If she needs her at 10:30, she will pick her up. If she's lying, she will go for the later option. Just stop discussing it with her.

Sit with your SD on the separate row, and try and get your head down. Even if you can't, a 90 minute drive after 4 hours sleep (5-9am) is doable.

I feel like I'm missing something -why can't her mother collect your SD from your house? If it's 10:30 just hand her over in her pjs and mum can sort her out.

Hopefully court will sort it otherwise message her on the day your holiday ends and say she is welcome to collect dc from yours herself or you will drop off at 12pm. Her choice. Then ignore her.

Apologies if I've misunderstood this, but wouldn't it make more sense to meet at the airport? You've said it's in the middle, and only 30 mins from your house. So you could all go home, have a longish sleep, and then whenever SD needs to be at the airport for her 2nd holiday, your DH could meet Mum there? 2pm ish