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Holiday issues/passport
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ThisMustBeMyDream · 22/06/2022 00:14

What do you all do about passport handovers for holidays? Is it the norm to have it with the travelling parent a little before the holiday?
DP would like DSDs passport so we have it for the travel agent who wants it scanning. We would also like it so we know it is in a safe place ready to travel. This is our first abroad holiday. We've only done UK holidays previously due to mums behaviour and ability to ruin absolutely everything because she can (long story). However this time my dad is treating us all to the holiday and isn't concerned at losing money (where as we really would be). So we are obviously worried that she will ruin the family holiday due to her previous form.
Mum is refusing to hand the passport over until the night before holiday (when she says DP can collect dsd) She has just returned from holiday, so there is no genuine reason to refuse it. She isn't travelling anywhere. Both parents paid half towards the cost of the passport. We now travel in 5 weeks.
I have suggested to DP that instead of asking for the passport, that we ask to collect dsd at a minimum the morning before we travel (so it has time to get to court before we fly if she refuses). Preferably the day before that though, but it is unlikely she will agree... I just can't see her acquiescing on the passport. She probably won't on the handover date and time either, but maybe she will feel she has "won" on the passport front so won't care as much? I don't know. I can't work out how her mind works. What would a fair proposal be?

in the passport conversation tonight DP has also learned that DSD is going to return from holiday with us at 4am (if not delayed!!!) and then fly back out later the same day to THE EXACT SAME DESTINATION! Mum has gone and booked a holiday last week without any discussion. DP knew she wanted to book another holiday but he didn't think she would do something like that!
I mean, why would you even do that?! It is stupid! If we get delayed then that is her holiday ruined, and the added stress on us at how she will punish us all if the flight was delayed (because she will). Also, poor DSD is doing a 4 hour flight home followed by a 4 hour flight back to the same bloody Airport in the same day, with next to no sleep (she is 5!). Just why?!!!

Before the usual crap begins from those who are not step parents, no I wasn't the OW. There was no OW ever. 3 month dating relationship. She wanted a child, was hoping DP would walk, he wouldn't. So now she makes coparenting as difficult as possible. Court orders mean nothing to her. She has breached multiple times, she doesn't care.

So what do you all do with holidays, passports, drop off dates/times etc? And did it ever get easier with regards to this kind of thing? DP has 50/50 holidays and we really would like to do an abroad holiday each year. But if we are paying I'm not sure i can cope with this stress each time of not knowing if she will keep to the order.

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JustPickABloodyName · 22/06/2022 06:05

Can't answer your passport question but make sure if she refuses come the time that YOU still go away. Don't let her cancel your holiday and completely waste your money.

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Magda72 · 22/06/2022 08:13

@ThisMustBeMyDream it does sound like she has no intention of 'letting' dsc go with you - but rather will take them to the same place on the day you come back out of spite & one upmanship.
I don't really know what advice to give but I think forcing the matter of the passport handover well before you depart is vital. How you do that however I don't know.

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Oizys · 22/06/2022 08:14

Personally I have no Issue with ex DH having our sons passport ahead of time. I keep his passport and birth certificate together with the rest of our documents usually but ex has had his passport since 2019 because he’s the one that takes him abroad and it saved faffing.

it just sounds like a power play on her part so she can feel like she has the upper hand and you / your husband feel like your dependent on her for your holiday with SC to take place.

best option would be to pick up SC and passport the day before you go (or a couple of days if she’ll allow it) saying you want some time to pick / get things ready to make sure you have sc / passport with you!

i honestly don’t understand why some mums (and dads) behave this way. Surely the most important thing is your child having a good holiday.

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MajorCarolDanvers · 22/06/2022 08:21

I think you need to go to court now. She has no intention of letting dsd goi on holiday with you.

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HidingFromDD · 22/06/2022 08:29

she has no intention of letting DSD go with you, and booked the holiday the way she did so that she can show dsd won't 'lose out' if she doesn't go with you if it gets to court. This is going to get messy so I'd suggest you go legal sooner rather than later

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motogirl · 22/06/2022 08:31

Can you not just ask for the passport because you need to do the preflight information? That's a legitimate reason.

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lunar1 · 22/06/2022 08:43

You need a solicitor for advice asap. I would hope your dh could take here to court to get the passport asap because it sounds like she has absolutely no intention of letting his DD go.

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JustPickABloodyName · 22/06/2022 08:49

motogirl · 22/06/2022 08:31

Can you not just ask for the passport because you need to do the preflight information? That's a legitimate reason.

Yes say you are doing online check-in now so you need it. I'm going away in a month and I can already check in online.

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Lorddenning1 · 22/06/2022 08:51

But she could just send a picture of the passport for the flight stuff before hand.

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Justthisonceharold · 22/06/2022 08:59

What's the situation with divorced parents applying for passports? It looks like she wont hand it over when needed and will probably claim it's lost. Could the other parent apply in advance saying the passport is list (because it will be).

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ThisMustBeMyDream · 22/06/2022 09:31

He is trying to not go for the nuclear option (applying claiming it is lost and doing fast track). But it is an option. However if she just doesn't hand dsd over, I suppose it is irrelevant whether he has the passport. He is trying softly softly in the hope of getting dsd a day or two before to stop the potential claiming she is sick, refusing to hand over etc etc. I am assuming (hoping) he can just turn up at the family court same day and be seen as it will be urgent. However, what isn't clear is that how they will make her hand dsd and passport over. Poor dsd 😩.
I do think some of you are right though about her having no intention to send dsd but I'm not going to say it to DP. He knows it without saying it. However to give her credit, we did have progress this year as despite all her many shenanigans she didn't withhold contact again this Christmas. DP fiinally had dsd here Christmas eve/morning so we both felt that was a massive hurdle overcome and perhaps an abroad holiday would be less of an issue. Maybe we were both wrong.

As for the online check in etc, she is saying she will scan the passport and send a copy. 🤷‍♀️

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Aksbdt · 22/06/2022 09:42

I agree with much of what’s been said so won’t repeat it but to answer your question about it getting easier we very much had similar experiences with DSDs mum but since the age of 11ish it’s got a lot easier as DSD is now aware that if her mum doenst give us her passport then we can’t go or if her mum says no then she knows about it so while her mum has never been good about putting her first she now has little choice as otherwise DSD will be asking her and blaming her if she can’t go on holiday.
it’s the same for a lot of things now she’s older like Christmas, she’ll say to her mum that she wants to spend it a certain way.
it’s a long road to get there but it very much feels worth it

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flowergirl2020 · 22/06/2022 09:47

I'd go to court now. Never experienced this but I'm almost certain there is a specific order you can get with regards to passports and holiday agreements. She wants to have you by the balls until the day of and will no doubt make silly demands in the lead up in order to hold you to ransom now. She has prior form for being like this so I would have thought court would be supportive. Also, if she goes against the court order re the passport, as others have said still go! If SC misses out that is on Mum xxxx take care lovely it's a thankless job x

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LittleOwl153 · 22/06/2022 09:53

I would go to court now. If she wanted to play spiteful she could block dsd's passport at the airport by ringing the passport office with her passport number and saying its stolen/she's at risk of abduction. You would not know this had happened until her passport is scanned at the gate. She will not be able to board and I assume her dad will be stuck there too as he cannot leave her alone at 5yrs old. By taking it to court now he could ask for a specific handover of the passport and also ask that the passport office is aware of his permission to travel with her. I wouldn't be taking that risk given the likelihood that her mum will play some kind of game.

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Hoppinggreen · 22/06/2022 09:55

She’s not going to hand over the child OR the passport so plan around that

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HappilyHadesBound · 22/06/2022 10:04

I would definitely be taking this straight to court for a specific issues order. She does not intend to let her go at all.

However, what does the court order say about passports? Ours specifies who must hold the passports and how many days before and after a trip they must be handed over.

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ThisMustBeMyDream · 22/06/2022 10:12

There is nothing in the order about passports.
I've just been searching about SIO and now I'm not sure it will be heard in time from what I've read. Fuck shit and bollocks. I think I'll post in legal.
Also, as she has agreed to the holiday as such, will it not be frowned upon if he makes another court application? The last order was August 2021. Things had improved somewhat so he is at pains to try and keep things on an even keel.

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HappilyHadesBound · 22/06/2022 11:00

If she's refusing to handover the passport and there aren't specific dates in the order to adhere to, then I would say that it's appropriate to go for an order, but I can understand the reticence. In our case, it's all detailed in our order. Only my DH can apply for and keep passports, Mum is not allowed to apply for them and she can only have them a maximum of 14 days before travel (doesn't apply if we're travelling in that time) and must return them as soon as the children are returned.

The SIO could also cover that sort of thing.

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SandyWedges · 22/06/2022 14:44

I have no helpful advice but wanted to agree with PP. If she plays silly games on the day you still go on your holiday. I can't believe she would do this to her own child. The booking a holiday to the exact same destination the next day is utterly ridiculous. If she had spoken to DH about it it could have actually been a good idea, if DC had stayed there.

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Amandasummers · 22/06/2022 14:52

You won't be able to just show up to the court on the day and be seen, that's for sure

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lookluv · 22/06/2022 15:59

Has your DP got an Irish grandparent - then he could get her an Irish passport and solves the problem!

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ThisMustBeMyDream · 22/06/2022 16:03

Oh wow lookluv. Yes. He has. His mother has an Irish passport too since Brexit. I'll look in to it. Thank you.

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ThisMustBeMyDream · 22/06/2022 16:43

Passport is a no go. DP can apply for one, but he had to have had an Irish passport before she was born in order to get her one.
Dps mum wasn't born in Ireland, but her parents were. So he can get one, but only children born after he gets one can have one. Never mind!

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Totheweekend · 22/06/2022 19:24

Can your DP change his flight so that DSC doesn’t have to boomerang. DSC’s mum will look doubly awful if she screws around with passports.

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ThisMustBeMyDream · 22/06/2022 19:34

We can't change the flight without changing dates. There is only one flight that day to our destination. And these were the only dates we can do due to annual leave and my dad/step mum availability.

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