To say you take both or you don't get DD

[jamoncrumpets]

I have two children, DS is nearly eight, autistic and has additional needs. DD is four and neurotypical.

Neither side of the family has ever offered us practical support or help with DS, never offered to babysit or take him out. The only help I received with him was a few hours while I had planned c section for DD and then my husband had to go home by teatime to put him to bed.

DD is growing and developing at the same rate as her peers, she's a very funny and outgoing little girl who makes us all laugh. We put a lot of effort into giving her our attention and support so that she doesn't feel resentful of time that we have to give to her brother, who she loves.

She is getting to the age now where both sets of grandparents are talking about having her go to their houses to stay, or taking her on holiday. But when they talk about this they only ever mention her. Never my son.

My heart says you don't get to pick and choose which of my kids you give this attention to. But I don't want to deny DD happy memories. AIBU?

I know you've riled yourself up to a state where you can't undig your heels, but from a disabled person... please let her go. If she doesn't like it then fair enough, but give it a chance. Even just a one-night sleepover with her gandparents.

The grandparents obviously don’t feel confident that they could cope with their grandson and his very complex and extreme needs alone.

By not allowing the daughter to go, nothing would be achieved except the daughter missing out on time with her grandparents and getting a break from the very full on needs of her brother.

It would be cutting the OP’s nose of to spite her daughter’s face.

This!

YANBU and you are right this thread is full of ableist attitudes.

It sounds like the grandparents desperately need to educate themselves and have long think about how they perceive their DGS.

I am a sibling of a disabled child..I loved and hated my DB so much at the same time. Everything being arranged around DB's needs , with mine as an afterthought. The stab of pain and protectiveness, when people stared and whispered or sometimes just outright said horrible things about DB. As i got older being embarassed to have friends over because of DB. Mother pushing me to have friends over and the stress of having to make excuses to spare her feelings as to the reason why i wouldn't.
DB's presence in some way spoiling everything that would have been nice, holidays, meals out parties. I am ashamed that i felt that way, but that is the reality . And the worst thing there is nobody you can share these feelings with without initiating a shit storm of pain guilt and hurt feelings.It wasn't until i went to university the weight of guilt, responsibility and resentment lifted that i realised the burden i had been carrying

Your DD is 4 and this won't really have started for her yet.Please do not deny her any little bit of pleasure or opportunity that comes her way.

As an aunt I have tried to put myself in the grandparents position.

while I do understand being nervous about taking the child alone, given his special needs, I don’t understand how they haven’t built a relationship with him over the years.

this can’t be a close family or else they would have spent a lot of time on the boys company with one or both parent there. They would have got to know and understand his needs and would at least have been able to c are for him for short bursts in his own home.

they just seem to have written him off

Of course your son’s grandparents should be showing him love and affection, and of course they should want to have a good, close relationship with him, and should value him as much as his sister. I don’t think anyone would argue against that, and I haven’t seen anyone suggest otherwise. YANBU to expect that.

However, that wasn’t what you asked in your original post - your issue was that they didn’t babysit, take him out, assist with his care etc. And that’s a very different thing.

Your son, as your other threads make clear, has some very specific needs. Among other things, you mention in other threads that he finds new situations very stressful and upsetting and that this can cause severe meltdowns, etc. Nobody here is criticising your son for this. Nobody is saying he isn’t a lovely little boy. All they are pointing out is that he has needs that not everyone would be capable of meeting.

I would not want to take a child out for the day, for example, if that child was likely to become intensely upset and overwhelmed by the experience. I would also not want to babysit a child whose needs I didn’t think I was capable of meeting. Not because I didn’t love the child, but because I would simply be out of my depth and unable to keep them happy and safe. That wouldn’t necessarily be disability related - for example, I would happily babysit a three-year-old but not their young baby sibling because I simply wouldn’t have the confidence or knowledge to meet a baby’s needs properly.

That’s why your son’s particular needs and behaviours are relevant to your question. Nothing to do with his likeability or his worth or how deserving he is of love and kindness. It’s just a question of whether people can cope with meeting his needs, for his sake more than theirs. Not everyone could.

I had three DC, two of them with SEN.

We now have two grandchildren. I used to look after DGD, the first one, two days a week from 9 months old, while DDIL went to work. Apart from getting meals and changing nappies, I spent all day playing with DGD. She came in the house and was happy to play with the toys all day. DGS, two years younger was a whole different ball game - if we took our eyes off him for a minute, he was doing something potentially dangerous! Chewing electric cables; opening the front door (and another minute more, he would probably have been off down the road, looking for his mother); climbing up the settee to stand on the window ledge to look for his mother; getting rubbish out the bin to put in his mouth……Really, we needed to move the whole contents of the house upwards out of his reach, and we couldn’t do that! His parents said the same thing - he was always climbing, falling and banging his head; and he did things that never occurred to his sister!

I think she is a typical girl (actually an extremely active one), and he is a typical boy - but I did not feel at all confident about looking after him at 18 months, when he had no sense and was mouthing everything. There is a reason people have babies in their 20s; and we find it far more exhausting, looking after young children at our age!

I can well understand other grandparents do not have the confidence to look after a child with additional needs!

OP the poster wrote a measured and not particularly unsupportive post.
You are reading things that haven't been written.

It sounds as though you're previous experiences with family mean that you don't want your dd to have a relationship with them, that is your choice to make.

It is worth thinking about where in the future your dd can get individual one to one support out of the immediate family. Many posters have highlighted how important this is going to be in the years to come.

YANBU. Children deserve to be treated fairly. Even if DD stays with grandparents, it means she’s losing one on one time with you, that DS enjoys but then DS does
not get that special time with grandparents. It’s not fair for either of them.

There’s nothing to say that they both have to always go at the same time? They could start with time one on one with your son for a few hours in the day and see how they get on, maybe they need some support with that initially if they are worried; but then they can also do the same with your daughter. And once they are happy & confident to look after each of them separately, they can progress to have both at once in the daytime and then eventually, to overnights if that’s something everyone is happy with, including your son.

I don’t think DD should lose out, but neither should DS. And they should want a relationship with both grandchildren. I think that’s the root of the issue and you’re within your right to be bothered by it IMO.

I wouldn’t want grandparents looking after my child if they didn’t really want to. If it’s simply a lack of confidence, that’s different, but that needs to be established. If they’re not interested in one child, that would be a problem for me because why is their love and support conditional based on whether they are ND or NT?

I think the issue here is: are the family not interested in DS? Or are they lacking confidence and willing to still make an effort, to the extent that they can. Even if they don’t do an all day and night with DS, could they manage an hour or two? At least then there’s an opportunity for both children to have A relationship with grandparents.

At the moment it sounds like they’re showing no interest in DS and favouring DD and that’s what’s upsetting OP.

Of course he’s a human being with feelings. That doesn’t make any difference to the fact that he has complex needs which may mean grandparents can’t provide babysitting and sole care of him. I didn’t say or imply he was a dangerous dog at all and I wouldn’t do such a thing.

However if there was some bad tone to my post I apologise - it’s hard to convey tone over these posts! I was just more saying that if you had been clearer about the previous issues people might have been able to offer better advice. But it isn’t unreasonable that grandparents can’t provide babysitting for a child with quite complex needs.

I do understand as I have an autistic son myself. It is a very very difficult balance between his needs and his siblings’ needs. And just like you I feel so protective of him because I don’t want people to ‘judge’ him on his behaviours as I know they’re not his fault. It’s very hard and I’m sorry you’re having such a rubbish time.

OP I get where you are coming from and understand why you feel like you do. Although I think if your DP/Dp in laws had tried more with your DS you would feel happier about your DD now getting their attention (and probably to you feels like their love).

My DD is NT and my DS is ND. He does have violent meltdowns, he bolts, he is very hard work. However he is also amazing, clever and kind. My mum has my DD regularly and not my DS however this is because routine is better for him. She spends time at my house playing with him. She finds things like books he would like in charity shops and sends them to him. She has a bond with him, she loves him and respects his way of doing things. Therefore I am happy for my DD to spend time alone with my mum and grateful DD gets to do things we would find tricky with him as well.

This I think is the difference - the acceptance of DS needs and treating them fairly albeit not the same but within their ability. Whereas I gather from your posts you do not feel they are treating your children fairly.

Or maybe, ya know, they are too frail to cope with a disabled 8 year old............. They cant help that!

Exactly

or just that they are nervous about whether they could manage him, given what the op has said about being his full time carer

OP, it sounds like the GPs just haven't made any effort to spend time with/bond with your DS, because they see it as too much work and (possibly) also are being just plain ableist about a child who isn't "normal", if the comments you've quoted are anything to go by?

That must be so heartbreaking for you and your children's dad. It's a shame that the GPs don't realize that if they put in the effort they could have a loving and rewarding relationship with both GCs, something that could benefit everyone involved. It sounds as though they've missed years of this potential relationship!

I don't know the answer to whether you should allow them to have DD for outings and holidays. I can see a lot in favour of the argument of not depriving her of enjoyable experiences. I can also see that being asked to essentially ignore outright prejudice is just wrong.

Have you at any point ever tried having an open conversation with the GPs, along the lines of the excellent one IVY1 suggested very early in the thread?

Your parents aren't going to just decide to change and start treating your DS with more love and affection of their own accord. They've had 8 years to do that.

Do you think it's worth explaining to them that it's essential to your family for BOTH of the children to spend time with their GPs, and to suggest ways to facilitate that? As others have said above--it doesn't have to be the same activities or length of time. It could be spending time playing in your garden with him, anything that develops the relationship between them.

You might resent the fact that you have to put in the work to persuade them to do this. But honestly I don't think you'll make any progress by just waiting for them to do it of their own accord.

If they're not even willing to try to take initial steps on this I think I'd distance myself altogether.

I think this thread needs some clarity as people are jumping to varied conclusions.

Are you asking if you ABU to expect the GPs to have sole charge of your DS, if they want to have sole charge of your DD?

Or are you asking if you ABU to expect the GPs to have built a relationship and given time and attention your DS, but not necessarily them taking care of him alone?

My assumption is the latter, because when asked how they were with him before DD you previously said:

Initially he was the golden child. His needs were apparent by about 18 months and then we experienced a significant withdrawal in interest.

I’ve seen this sentiment shared a lot on here, elsewhere online, and in real life. It’s important to hear these experiences too, not just the ones from siblings that haven’t felt this way, and not just the statements from parents speaking on behalf of their children (who may not know their children’s real thoughts/want to acknowledge them).

Re read your OP, OP

You are his full time carer
he is in his own home
eating at the same table with the same person in the same home.

can you not see that he will be at his most settled and happiest like this but this is very very unlikely to be the scenario elsewhere

And I would say, although won’t be popular, that your autism will explain I suspect to some extent your utterly black and white view on this issue

Of course your son deserves attention and affection, OP, but it doesn’t mean your parents are obligated or equipped to provide it in the way that you would like. Grandparents are not parents and they don’t owe you or your children anything. If you want to keep your daughter from spending time with them that’s up to you but be honest with yourself about why you are doing it. If you’re trying to teach them a lesson or get them to change there is no point. If they are hurting your son’s feelings or you don’t want your daughter exposed to their attitudes that’s different and more justified in my opinion. Be honest also about what ut really means to care for a child with the kind of needs you described in your other threads. Of course your child doesn’t “deserve” these additional challenges but that’s not your parents’ job to make up for. You are understandably hurt and emotional about this but minimizing the difficulty involved in caring for your son is only going to put him in unpleasant situations.

This.

Even the most high functioning autistic people tend to see things as very black or white, when the world is many shades of gray. I'm not being judgmental - that is how autism works.

Utter bollocks @strawberrylacey and @Bertieboo82 - how many autistic people have you interacted with? You've clearly come away with a Tesco Value appreciation of neurodiversity.

I have a BA and a MA in English Literature. My whole life is about exploring the grey, and exploring context and implied meaning. I am autistic.

Autistic people are capable of non rigid thinking, if my thinking about this issue seems rigid it is a product of the context and background to the situation, which I could share in its entirety but which would bore the living shit out of you (and take me all night to type when, frankly, I'd rather watch reruns of The Office on Netflix).

I'd rather watch reruns of The Office on Netflix

This would be a much better way to spend your time rather than posting on a forum, asking for opinions, and becoming furious at the posters who disagree with you.