Are Tory voters that stupid?

[StoneofDestiny]

Listening to Tory after Tory coming on TV this morning and almost every one has mentioned Jeremy Corbyn as the fear factor in voting Labour at the next election. Seriously - is that the best argument they have got to steer the public disgust at this government's behaviour away from them?

Yes, I know it was originally Conservative policy - one from which they have rowed back. Labour have not rowed back.

I hope Penny Mourdant is not the next Conservative leader. If the Conservative Party stance moves back in favour of self-ID under Mourdant's leadership, of course I won't vote for them.

But given that current Labour policy under Keir Starmer is to implement self-ID, whereas the Conservatives may implement it (which seems doubtful) I'm not sure why I should vote Labour.

Seems an odd argument: "Conservatives are bad on this issue, Labour is worse, don't vote Tory!"

I understand that people have different opinions to me. I don't think I'd like to live in a world where everyone thought the same as me.😄

However, I have read some monumentally stupid things from Conservative supporters here.
It's ok for a PM to lie to parliament and the queen.
I voted Tory because the liberal elite have had it too good for too long.
120+ FPNs for breaking the law is just the same as 0 FPNs.
I voted Conservative to protect women's rights.

Maybe they're not "stupid", just gullible.😕

start paying attention to the fucking mess we're in, how we got here and what the party in power are doing

How we got here was Cameron not having the confidence to tell the ERG to bog off. No referendum would have meant no Brexit and no Boris. Covid would still have happened, but with a reasonably sensible Cabinet in charge it would have probably been handled better. But we would have still had austerity and the cost of living crisis would have been bad regardless.

As you are a knowledgeable person, what would you do? (That's not a sarcastic comment. I'm genuinely interested in learning what you would advise.)

Is it not almost inevitable that we will have to endure some years of economic hardship and reduced standards of living?

Why do you say "atm"? Haven't we been, at least from the 2007-2008 crisis, and probably longer, somewhat at the mercy of the global economy? And won't that remain the case in future?

@EdgeOfACoin, KS and the Labour party are a distraction. The Conservatives are responsible for eroding women's rights. With the GRA reform, by refusing to make misogyny a Hate Crime, by refusing to enshrine the right to abortion and through punitive economic measures for the lowest paid and those dependent on social resources, usually women. Rape is practically decriminalised now, but the peelers will round in a flash if you write the wrong thing on Twitter.

As I said, vote for who you want when the time comes, but right now women and Women's rights are being destroyed under a Conservative government. If they were really that bothered about rolling back their own mistakes, they'd have done it by now. They havent because it's not a priority and they dont give a shit about women.

Please keep saying this. It can’t be said too often.

So, who do you recommend I vote for as an alternative, given the stance of Labour, Lib Dems and Greens on this issue, and that any other party doesn't stand a chance of influencing policy?

Maybe take a broader view and not vote on a single issue @EdgeOfACoin. All evidence points to the Tories being no better than any other party on this. On other issues - most of which affect women - they’re far, far worse.

Agreed

Until a party can accurately describe and protect the rights of women, I will vote elsewhere.

You're right we should stop working class people from voting, they are clearly incapable of arriving at an informed decision about anything political. Their lives would improve so much if the just trusted their betters to makes decisions for them.

What an utterly vile thing to write. It's frightening how do many self proclaimed morally superior people don't appear to value democracy.

Until a party can accurately describe and protect the rights of women, I will vote elsewhere

I guess you’re going to be spoiling your paper for the foreseeable future then.

Or voting for the least bad option to prevent the worst option (change of legislation) from prevailing.

I'd have more faith if Labour had space for dissenting women to speak but look how appallingly they treated Rosie Duffield? How can you tell me that there's room for women to lay claim to their sex based rights in the Labour party when those who say as much are subjected to obsessive harassment?

@EdgeOfACoin, I can't tell you who to vote for. The next GE is a couple of years away. Wait until then and make your decision based on who you disagree with least.😆

In the meantime, please recognise how damaging this government is being to women right now.

What an utterly vile thing to write. It's frightening how do many self proclaimed morally superior people don't appear to value democracy.

Agree that is a pretty poor post. You can see how the left lost sections of society and their support

Here, leave the working classes alone. It's not our fault the place is a mess. The Conservatives have loads of support from very, very wealthy people as well as the middle classes.

This. It makes me laugh when I hear Corbyn described as hard left.

They also have a ton of support from working class voters. The Sun is a Tory paper.

The very wealthy do not form enough of the electorate to win elections alone.

It makes me laugh when I hear Corbyn described as hard left.

You can laugh all you want, but that's how he's perceived, and he lost.

They also have a ton of support from working class voters. The Sun is a Tory paper.

The very wealthy do not form enough of the electorate to win elections alone.

True, plus the last election showed how many people from all backgrounds didn’t vote for them.

It was a low point admittedly

I voted Labour last election but even I knew that JC would lose it because historically we are not a socialist country and he was a toxic divisive figure. The anti Semitic accusations stuck ( even though he denied it all ) and he was fairly useless at public speaking.
Free broadband for all was laughed about, but now that looks tame compared to how much money was spent on Test and trace ( for example)
It was always going to be Boris Johnson's election to win because of brexit as well.
Labour could do with a new leader too , but someone in the middle ground.
Not sure who though.
The working classes do like Tory policies too
They won them over in the 80s! Including many of my own family friends and colleagues.

They also have a ton of support from working class voters. The Sun is a Tory paper.

So here's the way it works. Labour/Lib Dem whatever, politician says something about Trans. It is widely reported in the media. The Sun, Mail, Times etc. use it to demonstrate that they are destroying women's rights by pandering to woke snowflakes and predatory men and stupid. The Guardian report it as a wonderfully progressive thing. Like what happen in Starmer's Andrew Marr interview.

A Conservative politician says something about the trans issue, they just don't say much if they say anything at all. Even though these statements are coming from the Despatch Box by actual ministers of the government.😲 PM Johnson refused to say that only women have a cervix. Remember the press furore over that? No, very few people even know about it.

It's all about distraction. Look at them. Don't look at what we're doing.

The very wealthy do not form enough of the electorate to win elections alone.
No, but some of them own newspapers.

Labour could do with a new leader too , but someone in the middle ground.

I thought the whole problem with Keir Starmer is that he IS middle ground.

The GC argument is so stupid, because all of the changes that have happened were under a Tory Government, so why pretend that they are saviours of women?

Could you point me to one Tory who was forced to miss their party conference because their colleagues and members have no tolerance for gender critical voices?