Are Tory voters that stupid?

[StoneofDestiny]

Listening to Tory after Tory coming on TV this morning and almost every one has mentioned Jeremy Corbyn as the fear factor in voting Labour at the next election. Seriously - is that the best argument they have got to steer the public disgust at this government's behaviour away from them?

I won't visit his grave if he dies before me. Worst Prime Minister ever.

As for why some vote Tory, some is ignorance, some fear of the alternative, but some do subscribe to the policies and ideas they have. The Tories might now choose a Conservative, not an alcoholic misogynist who is financially illiterate.

I'm concerned about changes to legislation that would have a far reaching detrimental effect on women and girls and which would be difficult to undo in future.

Like self-ID, for instance.

Anyway, this is a thread about Labour. If Labour want my vote, they need to give me a reason to vote for them.

@heartchakra
Had Labour been in power the last decade we’d still be in the world’s biggest trading block meaning we’d all be better off at the end of each month. So well done and thanks Tory voters for that.

Those who have voted Tory because they liked Boris or because of the hate campaign against Corbyn in the tabloids are thick.

But those who voted Tory because of their manifesto aren't and they were lied to. I don't think it is at all helpful to brand anyone who doesn't vote the same way as you as thick.

I'm actually heartened by the pushback on this thread to the lazy self satisfied othering of people with a differing viewpoint that the OP started with and only some are joining in with.

I think most people tired of this type tribalism with Brexit and realised, whichever way they voted, that it was not they route for a cohesive, democratic society where surely the aim is to accept diversity of viewpoint, and allow democracy to find the line we draw, which will shift and balance over time.

A few people still can't give up their tribal allegiance and the associateed beleief that this makes them superior, and others not sharing that allegiance either stupid or evil or both.
But I think this tribalism might have peaked and be in decline as most of us can rationally see this is no way to live and that there are varied reasonable viewpoints a person can draw on most issues and still be logical and moral.

Do people tend to visit the graves of former Prime Ministers?

I am not sure that anything will change the minds of these people. Their responses indicate that they are incapable of assessing evidence or of making a sound judgement. The country is in more of a mess than other similarly endowed countries because of 12 years of Tory policy.

This isn't really accurate. The Labour schism is between the corbynite left and the centrist liberals. The working class now lean tory, or at least did before johnson fucked everything.

I've named changed for this!

It infuriates me when you call a certain set of voters stupid. Try actually have reasoned debate.

I voted for JC last time. I actually liked him.

But this time, personally, Tories actually fit me better, I'm in a good financial position (as a single parent!), I own my own home, the crazy increases aren't hitting me enough to jeopardise my standard of living.
I'm happy with my lot in life.

labour, well, I can't tell you a huge amount of their policies, because twice when I've tried to engage them about who a woman actually is, they bullshit and bluster.

So I can afford to be a single issue voter right now, that said, I grew up in poverty, with parents struggling on disability and I know that for them Tories would have been horrendous.

So I try and reflect morally on who I should vote for. And then I sway to Labour.

But being called an idiot, well, do you know what, stuff that. I can happily ignore my morals and go with who suits me personally better. Why should I remotely vote for a "greater good" when actually the ones who I'm trying to do it for have already passed judgement on who I previously voted for, and would rather shout down any conversation about it.

The only way to get Tories out will be to have open and decent discussions with others not stating that all Tory voters are stupid.

@princesscacao
Corbyn may be hard left today, but that’s because the political centre of the country has shifted significantly to the right the past twenty years. Corbyn’s policies and positions are actually very central by the standards of an average 90s Labour politician. Indeed, polls showed his main policies were popular among the public, more so than the Conservatives.

Wasn't Jeremy Corbyn a big fan of leaving the EU?
I certainly remember when he lost against Teresa May ,he said Labour were ready to do a Brexit deal.

Good post and hopefully so re decline

It doesn’t get to me on a personal level but it is a shame

I could not stand Corbyn and did not want him as Prime Minister. I also did not want Boris as Prime Minister.

Corbyn is irrelevant now.

theworldhas

It's the world as it is today that matters though, not the world as it used to be.

As to those criticising the Labour party, I would genuinely love to know what you think it should do to unite both factions of the left (ie the ultra woke ones vs the more socially Conservative ones, plus everyone in between). Because I can't see what would make them all happy, and all their votes are needed.

There is no need to call them stupid. They don't want Corbyn and that is OK. Not everyone has to think like you.
It would be beneficial to give out facts on why people shouldn't vote tory. Which is very simple right.

I think this is about policy and that's what scares me. Lots of the outgoing ministers are talking about financial balance and being open with the public that we can't do everything. Austerity has been internationally discredited and health and social care cannot survive even 2 years or it.

Then there's the MP who's planning on running on an anti Green platform, who is on record as believing that the climate crisis isnt real. He wants to roll back solar and wind power because its "intermittent " and appeal to the average voter by reducing costs through environmentally devastating activities.

I'm so scared that people are going to buy this stuff.

Corbyn is irrelevant now except for a few hard-left types who still want him back. That is never going to happen. He will continue to be ignored by virtually everyone.

The Labour schism is between the corbynite left and the centrist liberals.

Same principle applies. How do you keep both groups happy? You need both to vote for you.

Yes, he made no secret of it. However, their stance would have been based on the party as a whole, just as the Tories voted on whether Johnson should crack on with a no-deal Brexit, or not. As far as I can tell, Labour as a whole would not have supported leaving the EU.

Do you really think Starmer, who spent much of his career prosecuting domestic abusers, is anti-women?

He may not have articulated his stance well enough, as he is a kind man who doesn't want to offend a group of vulnerable people by cruelly stating that, regardless of how they are navigating a tricky situation, they have not and never will be a woman because they may still have a penis.

I am conflicted, confused and struggle with many aspects of the Trans debate, probably because I haven't taken the time to fully educate myself enough to form strong opinions, but the kindness I feel in my heart understands the notion that, should my son decide to identify as a woman, he would still need to be included in prostate cancer screening so shouldn't be filtered out of any group invited. Likewise, I want my daughter to have safe spaces where appropriate.

This is, I think, where we get the clumsy language around 'pregnant people', 'people with a cervix' etc. As with all huge change it takes shifts backwards and forwards to get to a middle ground, but to go after Keir Starmer for not playing into the media's hands by 'making a statement' on whether a woman has a penis is lazy - this becomes the stick to beat him with and serves as a distraction to the fact the Tories are dismantling many of our institutions and guardrails in plain sight

Isn't this exactly what you are doing in this post @Catsdrool?

Typical leftie thread - "anyone who doesn't think like me is stupid"!

First things first, Labour need to get Starmer out if they've any chance of getting into power. Still wouldn't vote for them if they continue saying men can be women and allowing people like Angela Raynor to call the opposition scum though.

Op, calling people that vote conservative stupid is rude and ignorant. Why can’t there be a debate without people hurling insults at each other and unfortunately it’s nearly always the left-wing supporters that do it.

Kind? Fuck kind. Can we have honest please? Can we have reason? Can we represent women in Parliament honestly and reasonably when we cannot speak their name?

I'm working class.
I have 2 first-class degrees.
PPE Philosophy, Politics, and Economics.
BE Business Economics.

I still work with my hands.
I've asked Keir/Labour, so I'll ask you.
What can be done about the supply chain inflation that is driving the Cost of living crisis?
For example, there has been a steady increase in the container freight index, which approximates the cost of transporting goods via shipping liners. The index peaked at $10,839 last September, reaching a level that was almost ten times higher compared with two years before ($1,279). Other freight costs, such as air freight, have risen similarly.

Have you any inkling of how complex the global economy is and how little control atm any government has over these interactions?