Teacher insulting my daughter

[Lua1978]

I work as a teacher at the same secondary school my daughter attends. In the staff workroom yesterday, a couple of teachers were discussing which two pupils they'd overheard saying something about something another pupil had done which they needed to report as a safeguarding concern.

When one of these teachers (who clearly has no clue it's my daughter she's referring to) starts going into great depth discussing one of the girls appearance as they couldn't remember her name... all very personal comments. She then remembered the pupils name and said "oh yeah it's (dds name)" she's got a very unusual name and the only one in the school for sure.

TBH if they had said poorly applied fake tan and skirt rolled up to short I'd have thought fair enough! I'm not overly precious about my daughter but these comments were really personal. I just sat there absolutely stunned and then walked out as honestly I was going to lose my temper or cry if I didn't and I'm normally a really calm person who doesn't get worked up about stuff.

Should I report it- it was really unprofessional, obviously she had no clue it's my daughter but it was so derogatory

Based on your way of thinking, if you overheard two pupils negatively discussing the appearance of another pupil, making comments regarding their weight etc, would you just breeze on by and not pull them up on it? Because they're free to say whatever they want.

Or would it be classed (rightly so) as bullying?

Same as a solicitor and I used to do criminal law. Basic level of respect for your clients however unsavoury and unreasonable they may be - surprised to see the defence of this

It doesn't really matter what anyone says here. No rules were broken. Nothing will happen if op complains that a teacher was describing her dd in the staffroom in a way she found hurtful.

Teachers are not one homogeneous blob, they're individuals. Some wouldn't dream of describing a pupil that way and some would.

The most derogatory descriptions I've ever heard were from healthcare professionals - paramedics, radiographers, a midwife - but I don't tar them all with the same brush.

Perhaps that's the problem, that no rules were broken.

In my workplace I would be breaking the code of conduct if did this. And I would face disciplinary for it.

Perhaps the bigger problem here is the way in which schools are managed (or not managed). Zero repercussions for disrespectful behaviour like this, will inevitably allow teachers to believe they can continue as is and do what they want.

Given how many people here don't think this behaviour should be reported, it's clear it's an issue.

"Given how many people here don't think this behaviour should be reported, it's clear it's an issue."

I don't think it's an issue either and I don't think it should be reported.

It was a description when trying to describe her to a colleague. Not a very kind one, but 'big girl, bushy eyebrows, mardy face' might be accurate enough for the colleague to recognise her.

I'm surprised if some workplaces have rules about describing a client or customer's appearance to a colleague.

*I think the question I would ask myself in your situation is whether you would be reporting it if the pupil in question wasn't your daughter. Be honest with yourself: if you'd heard them talking like about any other kid, would you, hand on heart, have been as upset about it as you are now?

If the comments were as derogatory as you say, I don't think teachers should really be talking about any pupils like that at work so by all means have a word with someone about it. But I also think it would be good to consider how the teachers at your school, including yourself, talk about pupils in general and whether what was said about your daughter was any worse. It wasn't OK for your DD so it shouldn't be OK for any other student either.*

Really well said.

Why have you quoted something OP hasn't said? you've changed the wording to sound not as bad as what was actually said. Which if you need to do to try and prove your point....

To be honest, I've been in my workplace for 10+ years, and have experienced many situations where colleagues have been pissed off with customers etc. I have never heard anything said about their appearance. Not once. Because like I said, it's rude, disrespectful and unprofessional.

The more people stick up for this, the more I do actually believe it's a case of some teachers believing they have a right to say whatever they want, and can do so because they won't get pulled up on it. That's the environment that's been built, somewhere where the teacher is in charge and therefore never wrong. Doesn't make for the safest place for students.

justfiveminutes

well said.

According to some on here if you said,

‘you know who I mean, Jan from accounts- bit chubby, frizzy hair’ security would be along to escort you from premises straight away!

Go to her classroom before school tomorrow.

Straight faced 'I need to talk to you - I, and other staff members, were really uncomfortable with the way you spoke about 'Emily' yesterday. You completely tore apart a fifteen year old's appearance and that's not the type of conversation we have in the staff room. We wouldn't accept that behaviour from the kids. I don't want to hear it again.' Turn to walk out. 'Oh and you don't seem to be aware - 'Emily' is my daughter.' Leave and never talk to the twat again. If it happens again, report her. SLT or not.

@justfiveminutes also, you're surprised workplaces have rules against being disrespectful about colleagues/clients? I don't understand how that is surprising.

I have never ever talked about the appearance of any of my clients (when I was in private practice) or students (now that I'm a lecturer) in a derogatory way. That's disgusting in any profession and makes the person making those comments look like an utter arse. Similarly, I have never ever heard anyone in the staff room making comments about any of the students' looks. It's completely unacceptable and idiotic to do that. Behavioural issues - yes; looks - no!

She didn't say the other teachers knew who it was, just that the teacher remembered her daughter's name.

The fact that you're trying to back up the adult bully by saying the insults might be accurate is disgusting.

yes report it. Why are you even dithering about it?

No, no one is saying that.

Would Janice have a right to raise a complaint based on another colleague making her feel uncomfortable by discussing her appearance in a derogatory manner with other colleagues? Yes 100%.

To anyone rude enough to feel it's ok to describe someone (especially a child) like that, then I can imagine they'd have their fair share of disciplinaries. Well in a normal workplace anyway, seems if you're a teacher you can say whatever you like about anyone at any time.

If I was describing someone, I can assure you I would never mention their weight. "Long brown hair.. was wearing a purple jumper the other day, sits beside laura", would be very different from "the one with the greasy hair, never shuts up, could do with hitting the gym every so often".

K8Shrop

I’d probably suggest that that’s not very nice just as I did when a child described the teacher who had sent her out as ‘the fat one’
the other day.
but I actually don’t think it’s appropriate to police the speech of other people in this manner. Having a conversation about someone is not bullying them.

K8Shrop

You are like the character in the Little Britain sketch who says all sort of shit to avoid saying ‘the dwarf’ or the ‘black man.’
utterly ridiculous.

"Having a conversation about someone is not bullying them"

Surely that depends entirely on what is being said?

K8Shrop

Janice should fuck off and go and live in a police state if she wants to demand that no one describes her in a derogatory way then.

Oh would you give over. I'm ridiculous because I don't go round calling people fat? Wise up.

Oh Christ you're one of those. What a waste of my fucking time

I said not to. Not because its not worthy of it, but because there are factors that complicate things.
Realistically this is going to come down to OPs words against two staff members, both culpable so will back each other. OP is new, and it's likely one or both of the others are longer serving trusted members of staff. (And it's amazing how blind managers can be about the characters of staff who behave in front of them and deliver results.) It is also OPs daughter.
So here's how I think that will pan out at investigation...
The teachers who said it may lie, but more likely will admit to a lesser comment, such as saying 'when I saw DD she had a face like a slapped arse' ie looked miserable.
There may be the suggestion that OP misunderstood or exaggerated as she was annoyed DD was discussed.
Its also unhelpful to demonstrate credibility that OP said nothing. Even though it's understandable.
Given all this, its likely there would be jnsufficient evidence for action to be taken. And OP has lost the advantage as they will be careful in front of her in future, or if not, she will have gained a reputation for unfounded complaints.
If OP waits there will no doubt be similar incidents where there will be no conflict of interest. She can then complain as an objective witness.
Obviously this is entire speculation, but I've been involved in enough similar matters to know that people's faith in reporting something as a resolution is often misplaced, and unless someone is at risk, you sometimes need to keep your powder dry and pick your moment.

K8Shrop

I’m completely serious. You think people should be able to police how they are spoken about when they are not present.
Orwell had nothing on you.

Teacher here. I think this is appalling and even if she wasn't your daughter, I would be complaining. It is unprofessional and nasty.

DD struggles to pick up social cues. The day she started rolling her skirt up because 'the other girls do' was actually a happy day for me...

I did point out that if she gets into trouble for it then she will have to accept the school's consequences.

But back to the OP. Completely unacceptable for professionals to use derogatory comments, whatever the context.

@5128gap ah so more institutional as opposed to the behaviour not being acceptable. It's a shame that environment has been bred, but it's not uncommon.

I wouldn't say the he said/she said argument should deter the OP from complaining. Yes, the teacher could deny it, but OP knows it was said and can only ever tell their side anyway. Not saying she would get the outcome she wants, but I do think the teacher has been unprofessional, so this needs flagged to management. Also, not confronting the teacher isn't necessarily a bad thing, given tensions could flare and escalate the situation.

In a school, would there be an appropriate place to raise something like this? Such as a neutral department (HR etc)? Or does it just go to the principal of the School/Head of dept?