To draw your attention to this U.K. abortion law court case?

[Wouldloveanother]

Evening ladies
in light of Roe v Wade, it seems more important than ever that we are vigilant about abortion rights here in Britain.
there is an upcoming case at the Court of Appeal which seeks to repeal section 1(1)(d) of the Abortion Act 1967. Which permits later terminations for fetal abnormalities.
the hearing is on 13th July (next month).
very few posters seemed to be aware of it, so thought I would open it here for anyone who wishes to discuss.
thanks

Do you have a link?

What do you mean by "later terminations"?

I have worked in the area and never seen a termination performed after 20 weeks
Pretty sure that the limit in the UK is 24 weeks regardless.

This is an interesting case in which complainants are arguing that 1.1.d (allowing the termination after 24 weeks if a child is likely to be seriously handicapped) violates certain ECHR rights.So far they have had no luck with their arguments and are now appealing.

Detail here

www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/resource-post/divisional-court-finds-law-permitting-abortion-of-fetuses-with-downs-syndrome-after-24-weeks-lawful/

Post 24 weeks.
righttolife.org.uk/news/woman-with-downs-syndrome-to-take-abortion-case-to-court-of-appeal

I don’t think they will win it - but I feel we need to watch these things closely now. It feels the first little chips at women’s rights are always things that fly under the net

I have worked in the area and never seen a termination performed after 20 weeks. Pretty sure that the limit in the UK is 24 weeks regardless

Section 1(1)(d) Abortion Act 1967 permits medical termination of pregnancy if:

“there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.”

In these circumstances termination is allowed after 24 weeks and up to birth. This does present an obvious ethical issue.

It does present an ethical issue, but abortion is an ethical issue full stop. As well as curbing women’s freedom of choice, I feel aggrieved that the people spearheading this court case seem to feel that the choices of other women should affirm their own children. I don’t think that’s right - I don’t think a world that supports and protects disabled people is at odds with one that also allows freedom for women to choose.

This along side comments made by mp danny kruger has me very worried. What else is coming?

There is a case being brought by a woman who herself has Down’s Syndrome, is it that one?

I think it’s because, in extremis, the law allows for termination up to the end of a pregnancy for foetal abnormalities, including Down’s. The actress Sally thingy from Smack the Pony has been active in it; her son has Down’s.

It’s actually a point I have sympathy with. Terminating a pregnancy at 40 plus weeks isn’t an abortion - it’s child destruction. Let’s face it.

BUT. I think it is phenomenally rare, and I agree that we need to be vigilant about attempts to alter the law. Very few abortions take place after 20 weeks anyway. We also need the final say to remain with women, in consultation with their doctors.

I think a termination for medical reasons shouldn’t have as time limit.

I think the choice should remain, it's incredibly personal and we don't know individual circumstances.

I agree.

And so far there isn't one.

I just went digging and the latest statistics are for 2020.

There were 236 abortions performed past 24 weeks. Out of 209,917 abortions in 2020, so approximately 0.1%.

The vast majority (over 90%) were performed at 12 weeks or below.

I would bet that each and every one of those 236 abortions was a hard decision.

I agree

Attempts to lower the time limit, until it’s MAP only, I imagine

This also makes for interesting reading www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bill-of-rights-abortion-raab-creasy-amendment-b2111993.html

I think a termination for medical reasons shouldn’t have as time limit

But would a termination at 39 weeks be a termination or an execution?

An execution

A termination on medical grounds must be one of the hardest decisions any parents will have to face.

Parents need time and support not a clock ticking in the background.

I agree too.

The 20wk anomaly scan isn't always performed at exactly 20wks, it can be done anywhere from 18wks to 22wks. So say you get an appointment for when you're 21wks, at the appointment they can't quite visualise all of the anatomy due to fetal position so - as is standard practice - they ask you to book a follow up appointment for a repeat scan (happened to me in all four pregnancies). Your new appointment is when you're 23wks. At the appointment they find a problem, it's potentially nothing but it's one of those nothings that could also be a something, they give you some stats about how the vast majority of the time it's all fine however they want to do more testing. You're given an urgent appointment at fetal medicine, just for when you're 23+5 and sadly it's bad news. You need to make a decision. Should you have to make that decision in the two days remaining to you before you hit 24wks or should you be allowed additional time to get further tests, to go away and do some research, to speak to your partner/family/friends, to get obtain a second opinion, to watch and wait for a little bit to see how matters develop, to think and to come to terms with whatever your choice is? There should be no limit because its not a decision people should be rushed to make, they should not have the pressure of an imminent cut off date.

Heidi's mother had a choice when she was pregnant. Sally Whatsherface had a choice when she was pregnant with her son. It is sickening that they now seek to remove that right of choice from other women.

I know of someone who had a termination at 36wks due to an abnormally found during a late scan to check the placenta. They all agreed the condition was incompatible with life. I guess it’s a huge decision, terminate when in the womb and no pain and suffering for the child, or give birth and watch the child die. Neither is a good option, and I guess that the parents made the choice they did with the absolutely believe of believing they were saving their child from any pain and suffering. I could never begin to judge that, what’s right or wrong as I can’t imagine being in that situation. It absolutely broke them. Heartbreaking

Sometimes a lethal fetal abnormality is diagnosed in late pregnancy by chance, I have seen this happen, where the baby will definitely have no chance of survival once born. It’s rare but does happen occasionally, and TFMR gives the parents the option not to prolong a highly distressing situation. I doubt anyone who has had to make this choice views it as an execution.

Forcing a woman to carry to term a fetus with severe malformations incompatible with life is barbaric.
And what do the campaigners aim to achieve? Forcing a baby to struggle in pain and distress for hours or days before its inevitable demise, when it could have been terminated in utero, even after 24 weeks if it was a late diagnosis? Where is the humanity or morality in that?

Since late abortions are so incredibly rare, I'd bet the ones approaching the due date are due to extremely tragic circumstances.
Probably where the baby wouldn't survive anyway.

Abortions should be a matter between the woman and her medical team.

Sometimes a lethal fetal abnormality is diagnosed in late pregnancy by chance

What if it is a non lethal abnormality diagnosed in late pregnancy? What is the difference between terminating a pregnancy at 39 weeks and killing a baby that has been born with a disability at one week old?

#itrustwomen to make their choice.

I think a termination for medical reasons shouldn’t have as time limit

i agree.

but I think the argument is what does “medical reasons” cover?

you’ve got everything from incompatible with life to a downs syndrome or spina bifida occulta child whose disablities may be very mild, who could lead almost normal lives. Which I think is where some of the pro discussion comes from, who decides what level of disability is acceptable?

even so, i believe it is the parents decision.