To draw your attention to this U.K. abortion law court case?

[Wouldloveanother]

Evening ladies
in light of Roe v Wade, it seems more important than ever that we are vigilant about abortion rights here in Britain.
there is an upcoming case at the Court of Appeal which seeks to repeal section 1(1)(d) of the Abortion Act 1967. Which permits later terminations for fetal abnormalities.
the hearing is on 13th July (next month).
very few posters seemed to be aware of it, so thought I would open it here for anyone who wishes to discuss.
thanks

Exactly this

💐

I have a friend who had a late stage abortion of a much wanted pregnancy for medical reasons. The abnormality was suspected at her 20 week scan, which actually took place at nearly 22 weeks. The hospital wanted to wait a week and scan again. Then she was referred to a fetal medicine consultant - that took two weeks. He wanted the opinion of another fetal medicine consultant, who confirmed what the first one had said. That took another week. She ended up having the procedure at 27 weeks after all doctors had confirmed her baby had no chance of survival

yes, this is exactly why late TOP should be legal, and this is exactly why the pro-lifers should not be campaigning for a legal ban.

the medical team checked, checked, and checked again until they were sure there was no other option. With pregnancy sometimes you do need to wait a week to allow for further growth, and check again.

if there’s a limit in place it means there is a chance more healthy babies might be terminated, as there won’t be time to make as sure as they can be that is the best option. So a mum who doesn’t want to bring a terminally ill child into the world to suffer may have to decide before confirmation in order to beat the deadline.

But the baby will suffer during the abortion too?!

No it won't @Olivestone

I would imagine it would be extremely painful to be essentially dismembered at 25 weeks...

i’ve seen this so many times in the Roes vs wade argument, that TOP, even early, is somehow done by dismembering the baby.

that is not what is done.

Past a certain point the foetus is given an injection to stop it’s heart before the procedure. It feels nothing. The woman will then be induced.

at no point is anyone dismembering anything.

The elephant in the room isn't so much abortion itself- I am pro choice and hope the law stays as it is.
But the fact that someone is having a child that needs lifelong support, might spend their life in and out of hospitals and institutions. This can be for a few hours post birth or for decades... at which point we are looking at ethics and morals and what defines our society.

It's very complex and at the moment some of these decisions are firmly in the hands of the parents, as it should be.

We would be better off giving parents the right support without a time limit, rather than putting them under pressure to make a decision quickly.

(I know, this will probably get reported & deleted, as insensitive. But as we are having the discussion, we also need to look at the bigger picture. )

The issue with Downs syndrome is that many affected can live a very happy life, as much if in some cases, more than a non disabled child.

Late medical abortion when the foetus is showing severe disabilities that means they would be unable to survive for more than a few years, or without experiencing constant suffering is totally understandable.

Many babies with downs syndrome also suffer from severe health issues or would if they were born, often cardiac. I hope it is on this basis that abortions past 24 weeks are granted rather than just confirmation of downs syndrome.

@Reallyreallyborednow
It has already been mentioned earlier on that no baby is dismembered.
Some people don't want to listen they obviously have there own agenda or they are idiots.

I think a termination for medical reasons shouldn’t have as time limit

I agree with this, the decision to abort is a very personal one and the ultimate decision must lie with the woman. I watched a friend of mine carry a very disabled child to term and give birth rather than have a late term abortion. Her son lived 33 hours, very painful ones at that. It broke her completely, she has never recovered. The child was much wanted however an abortion would have been far more humane for both mother and child.

We must move away from this notion that abortion equates to an unwanted child. It is always far more nuanced than that.

I completely agree with the assertion that TFMR should be available as early as possible and as late as necessary. Yes children with DS and other similar conditions can have a brilliant quality of life but realistically they are unlikely to live completely independently so I think it’s ok and necessary to give a woman the choice about whether that’s what she wants to sign up for. Same with other conditions, just because they are survivable it should be up to the mother to decide whether it’s a condition they can cope with or bring into an existing family where inevitably the dynamics will change and life will become all about the child with the condition.

Late abortions are never an easy choice and are usually very wanted children but to remove that choice from a woman and to force her into caring for a child and often subsequently an adult with possible significant additional needs for the rest of her life is barbaric.

Will it? Says who?

An injection the foetus will feel along with the resulting cardiac arrest. I'm not saying this is any worse than if the baby is born and dies but it's not pain free.

OK, fine, for those who use the term “forced birthers” and favour abortion on demand for any reason up to term, if we reach the point where a healthy foetus is past the point where it could survive outside the womb, and we have a woman exercising her right to end the pregnancy, why not save the baby? Why does it have to die?

Yes, I agree. When looking at abortion as a whole we also need to look generally at the lack of emotional, practical and financial support for parents in the UK. We have the second most expensive childcare in the world.

I am so sorry for the parents on this thread who had to terminate for medical reasons, I cannot begin to imagine how brave you would have to be to make such a heartbreaking decision for your baby.

TFMR is so rare and I fully support it. The decision is with the parents and their medical team.

You are balancing the rights of the mother, the fetus and the father

What rights would you want a father to have, in relation to abortion?

@PetraBP thats not what this argument is about though is it? No one is arguing for abortion for any reason at any gestation.

Cant say I would oppose it but that’s not the discussion at hand.

Are you going to foster or adopt? Where are all these magical homes that you think exist? You're living in some kind of pollyanna world.

@PetraBP I'm going to guess your view is the baby should be put up for adoption or place in care. Please don't underestimate the damage that this can do to children and the long lasting trauma it can have. And our poorly funded, under resourced care system is at breaking point.

I say this as an adoptee, who is battling mental health problems. And as a mental health professional who works with adoptees and children looked after every single day.

Olivestone I posted only about an hour ago about the anaesthetic used in feticide, please do the women affected by this the respect of reading the thread before judging what you clearly have zero experience of and spreading upsetting misinformation.

As discussed above, that's not what is happening. In the UK you can only have a late term abortion if the foetus has severe abnormalities incompatible with life. Stop the whataboutery.

If you don't like abortion, why don't you donate your time and money to things that will actually reduce the abortion rate.

As far as I’m concerned the options for keeping the babies alive are:

1. to be brought up by parents unable to cope or, in some cases, will neglect them


2. going into the care system (which can be pretty horrific even for a non-disabled child) and hope to be adopted which is unlikely as few people want to adopt disabled babies

even if one of these scenarios happened, they grow into adults - it’s not the same as being a healthy NT child who can eventually leave home, get a job and try to move on from a crap childhood. Such disabled babies would be unable to live independently and be dependent on substandard parents or the state care system for life.

For me i had a Tfmr because i did not want my child to suffer not bacause i did not have enough support or money.
If i was wealthy and had lots of support i still would have made the same decision. I do not know yet if my daughter is a carrier for the condition that i am a carrier of and i want her to have the choice if unfortunately she ends up in the same position as me.

You can't terminate after 24 weeks just because you don't want to be pregnant.

After 24 weeks it's due to very limited reasons; severe disability/danger to mothers life.

Not wanting to be pregnant with a healthy fetus is not considered a reason. You'll be offered other care, including admittance to a psychiatric unit.