Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

What has gone so wrong! We sat in A&E a few weeks ago, we saw the first Doctor who said it was likely to be an elbow fracture, roll on four hours later a different Doctor looked at the Xrays and said it was fine. I pointed out what looked like a crack and had my head snapped off, I asked if it should be supported and was categorically told no. Roll on a week and a half later a letter arrived suspected fracture. DS had been at school, in pain, and riding his bike in pain all week. We arrived at the hospital and had a nine-hour wait, and a cast later we left. He is suffering from school-related anxiety at the moment, I can't get him through the door of the school for love or money, it is so so frustrating. The world has gone mad.

Nanananananana99

I have mention the French and German system not the American system

I’m well aware we shall be paying more we need to pay more and we need our healthcare system to be more efficiently run, better managed and more investment

do you work for you the NHS Nanananananana99 ?

I’m ex-Nhs, and I agree 100%. Grabby Hands off our NHS, you thieving Tory Gits. If nurses strike, I’ll bake cupcakes for the picket lines, and contribute to crowdfunds for lost pay if I possibly can.

Or maybe tax your corporate employer more rather than the taxpayer who is currently paying more tax than in recent history after years of austerity resulting in meagre pay rises?

£17 an hour working in a food outlet? Where is this food outlet?!

PS: my consultant's secretary is still working from home

So? Sounds like the job can be done at home so why not.

good point.
but many people believe they own public sector workers.
and god forbid should they have something regarded as a perk to the job.
they should all be down trodden, on the absolute minimum wage, and give up hours for free. Because it’s a vocation to work for the wonderful nhs or social care. So why should they have a perk like working from home?

op, seriously, I understand everything in your post.
The abuse toward nhs and social care staff including racism has been rife for years. At the moment l, I dare to think how bad things have become.
if it’s such a wonderful job why aren’t young people queuing up for medial/health related degrees? Why do we need to recruit staff from
abroad (to be racially abused by, often ignorant patients). Why aren’t young and older people snapping up cushy jobs as a medical secretary. After all, you can be on a small fortune, work from home! And hardly lift a finger most of your shift.

my advice - strike

@Dibbydoos

Thanks for your post. A foundation grade doctor earns a similar wage to me. Junior doctors earn similar to band 5-7 nurses, doctors train for many many years to reach consultant level and have an incredible amount of responsibility.

Whilst consultants may earn way more than a nurse, consultants earn less than they would in the US, Canada, Australia and many parts of Europe.

NHS CEOs and senior admin managers on the other hand for whom there seems to be many and the wages higher than most consultants.

What is confusing your muddled thinking. Why you are asking for more money instead of leaving? If conditions are bad, surely a pay rise is irrelevant -won’t improve conditions??

I work in health for the local authority. There seems to be a common theme of lack of staff, to many vacancies, overworked, loads of safeguarding, not enough time for paperwork. It’s hard. But then is this across the board look at the airports -lack of staff. Do people not want to work for less money when some less stressful jobs pay more. I’m not sure what the answer is.
My job was downgraded with cutbacks so I’m going to retrain.

Too true I would go to the NHS if they paid better.

I'm a high earner in a corporate role and regularly feel like screaming at the government "TAX ME MORE!!". People like me should be paying our way, giving back to the system.

I think you might be a rarity, not many people want to be taxed more. Didn’t the increase in NI get a lot of opposition? And that’s for the NHS presumably

What percentage of your income would you like to pay in tax? out of interest

I've been qualified five years now. Things have gone from bad to worse especially since the pandemic. I am top band 5 now (£32,915) and don't feel underpaid as such, just totally fed up. My speciality used to be sought after for NGN's and experienced nurses, I didn't get the first post I applied for and had to try again. Now there are multiple vacancies, they will take any nurse whose willing to try.

Haven't seen a lot of these 'shouty nurses' but have encountered a few. Not all nurses are angels and unfortunately for their patients, some just shouldn't be practicing.

Don't know what the answer is. No care home beds, no social care, no ward beds, but patients must not sit in a&e for over four hours because that would mean their target box isn't ticked 🙄 doesn't matter if they sit in a corridor or on a trolley elsewhere, they just want them out of the department.

Won’t get a whole lot of sympathy from me, I’m afraid.

My experience of the NHS has been solely in maternity wards the last few years. It has not been positive.

• the second midwife who assisted with my first birth loudly sighed at me when I was sick (my partner had to fetch a bowl and clean me up as she stood there tutting), shouted at me for “not pushing”, shoved my legs into stirrups and dragged a student midwife in to gawp at me when I was over 24 hours into labour, hadn’t slept in over 40 hours, and was fucking physically and emotionally done. My baby had got stuck coming down the birth canal and it resulted in an EMCS so there wasn’t a fucking need for the sarky attitude 1 hour into her shift.


• a bullying, vindictive and nasty HCA who broke me down to tears no less than 5 times during a 4 day stay with a sick baby


• being left without pain relief after a c section for hours longer than I should have been across that 4 day period


• actively being told by one midwife “when you get up to go to the toilet for the first time, please ring the bell so someone can help you as you’ve had an epidural and general anaesthetic and we don’t want you to fall”, but yet when I did ring the bell, a midwife answers and you explain the situation, yet she looks at me like I have 4 heads and walks off. I eventually get to the toilet, alone, to see her sitting nattering with the other midwives at the desk having a right old laugh

There is a lot more but honestly, it still triggers me to think about it. I had horrendous PND afterwards and I firmly believe it was set off by that awful hospital stay. Now, granted, I did have a lovely midwife for the majority of my labour, and I really respect the team who operated on me and did a great job, but the rest of them can go to hell, quite frankly.

I am also getting really fucking sick of the “I work for the NHS” brag that keeps getting thrown around when someone wants something for free or a favour. I work in retail, which was a fucking apocalypse over the pandemic (which is rarely ever mentioned, even though these staff mostly do earn minimum wage and a lot of staff have signed a WTD waiver so there are many times where I work until 12am and get up for work again at 5am) and the amount of overly entitled wankers that come in wanting this and that because they’re an NHS worker grinds my fucking gears. (And to clarify, I’m obviously not talking about a situation like paramedics on call who need to use the staff toilet or something).

A man came in to use one of the services in store that shuts at 7pm. Clearly signposted online and around the store as well as at the front door. He came in at 8.50 to use it. He was very politely told “sorry, we can’t do that. We close that service at x time, however, it is open at x time until y time tomorrow”. The NHS brag was thrown around and I got 30 minutes of vitriol over it. Shit I really don’t need, quite frankly.

I’m sorry I can’t be more sympathetic, but unfortunately some of your cohort have really burned their bridges with me (and a lot of other people) through their actions.

@Dave20 young people don’t want to go into a profession where the average ceiling of pay is 27k and you face legal responsibility, you could kill someone and could easily end up in court. Nobody wants that level of pressure and stress unless there is an upside

@BluebelllsRosesDaffodills
People are having fewer children? The birth rate and fertility rate is declining. You might not realise but we actually recruit NHS staff from countries with higher birth rates and more balanced populations.

The overwhelming majority of patients are elderly.

That being said I certainly won’t be having any children.

I support you. I actively want to you strike as I don't see how else the government is going to take notice and actually do something.

@Gakatsbsk the best way to support an NHS worker and the public for whom they are responsible is to allow the failings since 1948 to be perpetuated. I will vote for the party that commits to reforming the NHS and aligning our health service with that if a Continental system. I am mature and have been around for more than 60 years. I saw no improvements in NHS services between 1997 and 2010. I have heard far too many nurses whinge about the tories. I really don't want to hear the political views of any professional adviser. My solicitor doesn't share them, my accountant doesn't share them, my vet doesn't share them. The occasional London Cabbie does.

Bearing in mind that during my lifetime 1960 to present about half the population have consistently voted Conservative, why do so many nurses find it appropriate to ram their political views down the throats of their patients. Do they not realise that half their patients may disagree with their sentiments. Are they not taught how inappropriate it is.

I work in a busy A and E in Ireland . Same thing here .its mad busy. Lovely staff burnt out.managers leaving the public system to do agency work. Everone is dissatisfied . We are constantly filling out incident reports due to understaffing BUT there is no way I would strike. It will do absolutely nothing except cause a public opinion backlash.. here- one nurse to 26 patients just wouldnt be tolerated there is always at least 2 plus 2 care assistants who do the obs. My own dad has dementia and im beginning to think due to no home care availability. The HSE want to throw him into a care home just as its easy for them . Lets shove that pesky home care problem down the rd..The pay is good in ireland .The nhs is way less with even nurses from NI crossing the border to work in the south. I get the frustration BUT public opinion will decide matters and striking wont help that.

I used to work in mental health & the government allocated money to mental health some years back (not under Tory govt). This was all very exciting but the government had no control where the councils were spending that money. So when it came to it only a few councils spent it improving mental health services, some used it to buy new computers & many didn't spend it on mental health services.

There was nothing apparently that the government could do once the money had been handed over, it was up to the individual councils what they did with it.

I am still outraged by this. However my point is that mismanagement of funds & people have a lot to do with dysfunctional organisations

From my perspective anytime I go on socal media or turn the news on its nurses moaning about how they don't have time to pee, they don't get breaks and they have to use food banks I find all of these statements hard to believe which makes me not able to take their concerns seriously. Iv got a multitude of complex medical problems and have spent my whole life in and out of hospital and its not uncommon to see nurses stood around chatting so why aren't they peeing during this time. It's not uncommon to see nurses outside having a cigarette again how is this possible if they don't get breaks. The starting salary for a nhs nurse is £24.907 so why on earth are they using food banks I earn half that and actually donate to foodbanks. If nurses actually talked about the real issues more people would listen

@puffalo

I’m not asking for your sympathy. I’m asking for a change in conditions in the NHS that mean patients don’t have to continue to experience what you experienced.

I’m sorry you had such a horrible time.

I can’t relate to your point about NHS workers bragging, I don’t advertise it publicly. I want my patients to not die in preventable circumstances not a free coffee.

Thank you for your informative post. I did not realise how bad the situation had become and I fully support strike action. More funding is required immediately.

It sounds awful, but so is the care my poor DGM had when she was taken to hospital with a suspected fracture a few weeks back.

More than 24 hour wait for an xray, not fed or watered, no visitors/companion allowed (she actually could have someone with her the whole time as she has dementia, but family were misinformed by reception staff.)

She had to sleep under a blue paper sheet instead of a blanket or cotton sheet. She was finally discharged against doctor's advice having not been taken to the toilet the whole time. She can't walk unaided. She was hungry and dirty. She had soiled herself when she was discharged. It was barbaric and inhumane.

The complete lack of care and dignity she experienced was appalling.

That's not just poorly paid, over worked staff. That's an absolute failing of the whole organisation and people who are not even trying to do their jobs.

I think this is all far more complicated than it appears, it isn't simply nasty Tories underfunding the system (although underfunding is part of it), it is a long term problem.
In the Thatcher years this country moved to the idea of low taxation and, at that time, it was possible as the baby boomers, the big bulge in the population, were largely working, healthy and paying tax so could pay less per head but now that same big group are elderly, needing pensions, healthcare and more support which all costs when there are fewer people paying. People would not want to pay as much as is needed so any party who would put up taxes enough to adequately fund health, education and more would never get voted in or would be voted out pretty damn quickly.

I have worked in the NHS for almost 40 years in one of those clinical professions that are always overlooked and their pay eroded as the public only recognise nurses and doctors so they are the only ones who get support. When I first started work the NHS had problems as it was so inefficient, now the problems are worse as it is inefficient and underfunded. I don't think the solution is privatisation like in the US but think we may need to look at mixed system like in Europe as we have an ageing population and cannot expect the young to fund that (and I say that as an ageing, soon-to-be- pensioner)

English Tory voters

and this is the reason why.