Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

I support you.

The tories and the people who voted for them are absolute shit bags.

@Gakatsbsk

My post wasn’t intended as a criticism! My Mum did have a poor experience but she left feeling terribly sorry for the staff she encountered and that was her main takeaway of the experience - that NHS staff are under intolerable pressure and suffering badly.

@RosesAndHellebores

I didn’t clap either and neither did any of my colleagues.

I’m sorry the NHS care you received was poor. It should be better. I’d encourage you to complain.

You in many ways are an example of exactly what I have proven. The NHS is a fiasco.

It is interesting that you don’t think professionals should strike - Margaret Thatcher would be very pleased.

In my hospital, multiple workers (porters,
cleaners and catering staff) have been made redundant.

Thanks for your post. I’ll remain the unprofessional nurse that will strike for my patients.

My NHS experience this weekend was frankly horrific. My 83yr old Nan was taken in to A&E with breathing difficulties and turned out to have covid unbeknown to her or us. I followed the ambulance and we got there at 1am Friday. Once they realised she had covid they put her in a bay and said she could not come out and move around the hospital. She had to keep the curtain closed and if she needed the loo she had to ask for the commode. She was struggling to breathe so wouldn't let me leave her as she was frightened she was going to stop breathing and no one would even know. 4 hours later someone did her obs again and I went for a wee. Another 4 hours later she did a poo in the commode and we had to sit for 30 minutes with it in the cubicle before someone took it. At this point she was shaking and crying and begging me to take her home. I didn't dare as the paramedics said her ECG wasnt right that's why they made her come in. 9 hours after being there we had seen a nurse twice. No offer of food no drink neither of us were allowed to come out from behind that curtain. 12 hours later a doctor came and said she was fine to go home. No repeat ECG but his thinking being if anything bad was going to happen ie she was going to stop breathing and die it would have happened by now. I get the NHS is on its knees but there was zero compassion for an old lady who was frightened and scared. No matter how overworked I was I could never treat anyone like this.

I disagree with everything you believe about the nhs.

@SemperIdem no worries. I’m not sure if I’ve tagged the wrong person in a previous reply 🤣. Thanks for your comments x

I absolutely support you and I'm so sorry it's so awful in the NHS. I think you're all doing an amazing job.

PS: my consultant's secretary is still working from home

So? Sounds like the job can be done at home so why not.

OP I back your right to participate in industrial action 100%. Thank you for all you do.

When my family or I have to be in hospital, I would like those looking after us to be rested and well compensated, not stressed to the point of having no feelings and worried about feeding their family. That is bad for everyone.

I was a student nurse for 2 years, it was tougher than my previous postgraduate degree. I remember the first time I was hit, the first time I was shouted at, the time a patients family member tutted and shook her head at 2 nurses moving a bed into a side room as she had to wait 3 seconds. Of course some patients were a joy and incredibly grateful, but even as a student, there was NEVER enough time.

You have my total support and gratitude. I have been to/had relatives in hospital a number of times since the start of the pandemic and while it is very clear just how busy the staff are, the care has always been fantastic.

I support the strikes 100% although unfortunately I do think they will ultimately play into the hands of the Tories 😔 They are pushing the NHS to the point of collapse to justify bringing in privatisation. I'm just appalled (but sadly unsurprised) by the blatant callousness and inhumanity of this government and support any public sector worker striking whether in education, healthcare etc. We can not go on tolerating a race to the bottom where basic rights are stripped away and we pit different economic classes against each other, with the most disadvantaged in society punished the hardest.

@Gakatsbsk how long ago would you say it was ‘better’? My only big hospital experiences were 12 years ago. And it seemed pretty bad then, 10 weeks in hospital and the nursing staff were certainly demotivated/disengaged. Doctors were mostly absent.

Post pandemic I think people are supportive of pay requests, but coming on the heels of rail workers and barristers it probably isn’t great timing. Would have been so much more supported if they’d been first off the blocks.

@mumda

I might be misreading your comment but this extreme short staffing is with agency staff. Every shift I work there is agency staff but even with them we are still very short.

My only experience of the private sector is outsourcing - in England it made basic tasks very convoluted. (Lots of ancillary services in NHS England outsourced)

I quit in 2019 after 18 years as an RMN. I was proud of my role and loved it but by god, the NHS is toxic and dangerous.

I will support you and I know many others will also. And thank you for the work that you do. The situation with the NHS is very frightening to say the least. Of course, the Tories in government don't care in the slightest - they and their families all get private healthcare. Anyway their plan all along has been to bring the NHS to its knees, then show that it isn't working so they can privatise it. I fear a strike will hasten this but there really isn't any other choice.

It is appalling that conditions are so bad it is compelling nurses to strike. I am afraid if you do not, nothing will change. I support you.

I don't support the RMT at all but I think that nurses are and have always been underpaid.

The problem is that most people don't want to do a job like yours so I really admire you.

I don't know what the answer is but we have too many old people who are living too long and too unhealthy lives.

I don't know what we can do. We can't just keep importing people from other countries as we already have a housing crisis.

The only answer is to allow people like me to die when we can no longer look after ourselves and don't want to go to a care home and be a burden on society.

There are lots of people who don't want to carry on living when we are dependent on other people but we can't kill ourselves easily.

@Makegoodchoices

Hi, I’m not necessarily sure it was better at some point but I have seen a serious decline in the past 4.5 years.

My mother saw a decline in her 25 year career in the NHS.

I have noticed an accelerated decline in staffing in the last year - yes it has always been short. But, I have even seen one nurse covering two wards at time. My mum worked as a nurse in the 80s and 90s, in the 80s for a 28 bed ward there was 2-3 state registered nurses, 1-2 enrolled nurses, multiple student nurses and auxiliary nurses. When I trained on a 30 bed ward there was 2 RN’s, one student and a HCA. My friend works on that ward (RN) and is regularly the only RN and on with one student or one HCA. This to me demonstrates the decline.

I support you 100%.

I'm not sure they do op.

The nhs is at crisis point due to at least a decade of underfunding and low wages.

A pandemic, the awful response to said pandemic.

An ageing population that no one will acknowledge we are caring for in completely the wrong way.

A govt and senior executives within the nhs that focus on strategies that the general public dont want and no nothing about.

A staffing crisis caused in part by retirement and staff being completely overworked and demoralised.

And a minority population of people who completely misuse the NHS.

I'm not sure if any of these things can be fixed but sorting the recruitment and retention crisis has to be the priority.

Then we need to reduce the general public on what a free at point of use publicly funded health care service is capable of providing

IME the staff are not desensitised or unprofessional. They are doing they're absolute best in really awful circumstances. Pt care in wards has not suffered even though the staff are

I have been a nurse for 21 years, I was an A&E senior sister for 7 years. The stress is unbelievable and I leave every day sad that I haven’t done my best for the patients And I believe we provide a sub standard level of care now.
Over the years I have worked with some amazing nurses and quite a few awful ones who don’t like patients and want to climb the ladder as quickly as possible to get into a non clinical role. The want for them to do basic nursing care was non existent.

I don’t want to strike as I am scared what will happen to our patients if we do but on the other hand I don’t know how else we change

I’m struggling to keep up with the volume of replies.

But to summarise I’d like to make a few things clear:

1. I do not want or need claps or praise or being called a hero. Neither do my colleagues - we want safe conditions for our patients. Maybe some breaks on 12 hour shifts. It’s not all about pay.
2. I do agree the health service isn’t fit for purpose - which I think has been the plan for a long time. I agree it needs overhauled, I don’t agree with privatisation and have not seen a positive effect from it.
3. I really am sorry for the dreadful situations people have had with the NHS, I too have had surgery cancelled and multiple appointments rearranged. I hope for better.
4. I agree that life is very hard in Britain at the moment and am sorry for the job losses and the decline in standard of living. However, it being difficult all round doesn’t make the condition of the NHS acceptable.
5. I am grateful for all support but noted a few people saying they support nurses but not the RMT / rail workers - this is divisive and a symptom of the divide and rule. As a nurse I support 100% the rail workers - I drove 5 hours to reach my family home after a nightshift when I’d normally get the train - I’d do this every day. Rail workers (drivers are not on strike atm) face a pay freeze, fire and rehire and erosion of pensions and conditions. Solidarity from this Nurse. To quote a miner ‘I don’t believe what the media say about us so why on earth would I believe what they say about them’.

@white66 thanks for your reply. I too go home on days and worry so much for the deficiencies in care that I have tried but been unable to provide.

I do agree that there are nurses who are very poor, I think there is a massive failure to fail student nurses and quite frankly that staffing being so poor is overshadowing people who need serious intervention.

I do not wish to come across as divisive but the last thing we have to withdraw is our labour. I feel we are at that breaking point.

About to say the same thing. 15 ears ago it was also bad.

My nan was left in a bed on a corridor dying.

I also had major surgery cancelled that I desperately needed due to lack of beds.

I think sometimes we have a very misguided nostalgic view of NHS in days gone by.

I haven’t rtft but I’m sad the pandemic response has led in part to this.

We’ve spent so much to cover that it’s hard to see how we can pay more taxes, as everyone is hit by cost of living

It’s the kick back from all of that now, with the war making it loads worse