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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

648 replies

Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 20:09

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

OP posts:
Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 22:41

@justasking111 Ive heard this about other countries too. I had a patients relative pull an emergency buzzer in ICU because their relative needed a tissue passing to them - the tissue box was next to his hand. Obviously not all like this but it doesn’t help.

OP posts:
Honestly34 · 28/06/2022 22:41

This is exactly how it is I also find this with teachers and staff at school

Reginaldina · 28/06/2022 22:42

I support you 100% and would support any public sector workers taking action for better pay and conditions. The NHS is being destroyed/dismantled under our noses by the Tory's, they hate it and want healthcare privatised for good. Good luck and good health to you.

MrsDoofus · 28/06/2022 22:42

I think it's all part of Boris' back door privatisation plan. Let it go to shit and then declare privatisation is the only way forward. And maybe it truly is, now, unsalvageable as a public sector organisation...

RosesAndHellebores · 28/06/2022 22:42

@InChocolateWeTrust I don't entirely disagree. What is absurd is that I earn over £100k pa and because I'm over 60 get prescriptions for free.

Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 22:44

@Dominuse I don’t really understand the point you make but I am glad your consultant surgeon brother is thinking of ways to work round the NHS problems. I fixed a tap the other week. My colleague painted part of the ward. Your brother is doing what many of us do also. When I worked in England the maintenance services were outsourced and expensive, the NHS service I’ve found to be quicker and more cost effective.

OP posts:
Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 22:44

@MrsDoofus 100% agree

OP posts:
Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 22:46

A common theme is that we can’t strike for better conditions. Legally there is no right to strike in the UK. The law is very restrictive. Thanks to MT.

All other methods have failed and the Tories have been voted back in despite the abysmal failings - the last thing I can withdraw is my labour.

OP posts:
Mamai90 · 28/06/2022 22:46

100% support you OP. My sister is a nurse and has similar complaints. But even if she wasn't I'd be 100% behind you!

Strangeways19 · 28/06/2022 22:47

@Gakatsbsk i guess you have options, I get you don't feel that you should have to leave for greener pastures but I would ask myself is it really working for me, & go from there.

If it isn't working & it's a structural issue there's not a lot you can do about that, except pressurise higher-ups, changes take a long time though...

Fashiontatts · 28/06/2022 22:49

100% behind you and your colleagues OP! The work you do is incredible and not something I could ever imagine having to cope with. I fear privatisation is coming and I find it appalling to think we'll lose the nhs... I can't believe there isn't rioting in the streets over it tbh

Nanananananana99 · 28/06/2022 22:50

@HRTQueen how much do you think you will be paying for your prescription of hrt once the system has been rearranged into the dystopian, American style nightmare you crave? Here is some basic information about the cost of hrt as well as getting a doctor to prescribe it on an insurance based system

ht-ca.com/blog/how-much-does-hormone-replacement-therapy-cost/

BluebelllsRosesDaffodills · 28/06/2022 22:50

Alternatively, people could just have less children..,,

ChopsyDoesntDoFungus · 28/06/2022 22:50

AluckyEllie · 28/06/2022 20:44

Yup I’m an NHS nurse of 14 years, currently top of band 6. Most of my nursing career has been spent in ICU, I’ve done all the extra ICU training/shift led throughout covid supporting so many untrained and junior staff. I’m now paid the same working 9-5 in an office role that quite frankly a trained monkey could do. It’s ridiculous, I’ve got a lot of experience and I loved ICU (and without being bigheaded-I was good at it.) However, I’m completely burnt out and seeing how the general public regard us and how our managers treat us made me think ‘sod you all, I’m getting a cushy job to get paid the same without the stress.’ Without being spoken to like shit by family members, without getting punched and kicked by withdrawing alcoholics or the IVDU that’s on a comedown. That’s without the constant frustration of no beds on the wards because social care is on its knees and flow through the hospital is non existent.

There is a lot of focus on the public misusing services and I do think that because we don’t remember a time without the nhs we are a bit entitled but 90% of the problem is years of underfunding. The government isn’t training enough staff or doing enough to retain them. Hospitals are out of date and there are not enough beds for the size of the population. We are not an attractive option for recruiting doctors from overseas compared to America/Canada/oz. Our waiting lists are enormous. Everything is struggling.

rant over, as you can imagine I will be voting to strike. I hope people support us.

Tell me more about this office job please…

N1C · 28/06/2022 22:51

oldageprancer · 28/06/2022 21:57

It's all a mess and needs to be funded better.

Pay-wise though, I've seen a lot of pretty okay salaries, more than I earn yet it's a 'poverty wage'? It maybe depends on where you live? Or what you call poverty?

Average nurses salary is £33-35k. My friends who are nurses earn £50k+.

That does go in the same bracket as rail workers for me, sorry. Well paid jobs.

Where did you get your average nurse salary information from please? Band 5 nurses start on £25k and only go to £27k after 2 years.

BluebelllsRosesDaffodills · 28/06/2022 22:51

BluebelllsRosesDaffodills · 28/06/2022 22:50

Alternatively, people could just have less children..,,

That was in reply to the PP that made the comment about euthanasia as the answer

venusandmars · 28/06/2022 22:52

One of the great challenges is that there is a systemic problem in the WHOLE care system, not just in the NHS.

I understand the frustration and the pressure to strike, but how does that help any part of the social care / care home / nursing home system? It doesn't. Yet that is a real part of the problem. Where I live, people can get up to £17 per hour working for a retail food outlet, but our social care charity get £10.50 per hour in our contracts with local councils. We can't pay £15 or £17 (without charging individuals for the cost of their care), so we struggle to accept more people.

The UK could pay nurses double their salary but if there are no suitable places for (mostly) elderly people to go to, then the pressures remain.

Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 22:52

It’s slightly frustrating when people are replying to complain about the NHS and make the same points as me and other healthcare workers are making. This proves my original point 100%. You are saying the NHS is shit as if 1) that’s somehow the few staff remaining in its fault 2) it can’t be rectified in any way and is nothing to do with funding and 3) as if it being so shit is an argument against industrial action?

This confirms what I thought originally when posting. I imagine the Tories will be returned again at the next election and the spiral of blaming nhs staff for nhs problems will remain.

However, some positives and thanks for the support. Ultimately the best way to help an NHS worker is to not vote Tory at the next election. If you want a better NHS please stop voting for the party destroying it.

OP posts:
Sn0tnose · 28/06/2022 22:53

I totally support you. You and your colleagues have saved my life on more than one occasion and have saved the lives of several of my loved ones too. You’ve cared for my loved ones as they’ve taken their last breaths and you’ve done it with a kindness that made a difference. You deserve more pay and better conditions and I hope you get them.

Dave20 · 28/06/2022 22:54

I was listening to radio 2 today about workers and strike action.
One caller said about the police and NHS that it’s not just about money , it’s increasing staff numbers too. She said that even if the staff had a pay rise they would still have the same problems.

The NHS is recruiting, but maybe people don’t want to go into these jobs anymore, taking a simplistic view.

GreenClock · 28/06/2022 22:54

OP - Do you find the NHS in the devolved administration where you currently are (Wales, NI or Scotland) better than in England? If so, what are they doing better? It’s just that I hear complaints from friends in various parts of the UK.

Dibbydoos · 28/06/2022 22:54

Completely support you OP, question is how can you be helped?

I can't get my head around how poorly we pay nurses and others who work in NHS and yet how well we pay Dr's and Surgeons. I know they deserve more pay as more difficult jobs, but surgeons also do private practice work and earn a bomb...

Ref Pro tory etc, it's been like it forever. Only those who bother to read anything know how much worse off the country is under Tory rile - greater borrowing, more unemployment etc.

40% of voters voted tory & they were so smart to put all Labour supporters together so only a small number of Labour, Liberal and marginal seats left to fight over...

If striking is all workers can do to protest then strike. I completely support unions - I mean we'd have no rights if it hadn't been for unions...

Livelovebehappy · 28/06/2022 22:55

The NHS needs a big overhaul. And people need to be educated on the use of it. You only have to go into any A&E any day of the week to see how people abuse the system, by using it as a walk in surgery/GP facility.

Gakatsbsk · 28/06/2022 22:55

@oldageprancer

Feel free to look up the agenda for change. Health care assistants are paid band 2 or band 3. Newly qualified nurses and staff nurses band 5, charge nurses band 6 and ward sisters / ward managers band 7. The majority of nurses are band 5. You don’t seem keen to learn and seem to believe everything the media and Tory government tell you but that reflects on your education and isn’t all your fault. I wish you all the best and hope you can do some research and educate yourself.

OP posts:
Ripasso · 28/06/2022 22:55

I think nurses and teachers deserve higher pay and I’d be willing to pay through higher tax.

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