Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

I'm a paramedic, at the beginning of my 17 year career my record for most jobs in a 12 hour shift was 12, now I'm lucky if I see 2 patients a shift and one of those won't be 'my' patient but one handed over from the shift before that has already been waiting outside a&e for several hours. I'm de-skilling rapidly, but then sometimes I work alone on the car, where I recently waited over 1.5 hours for backup for a critically ill patient with a head injury who was deteriorating in front of my eyes. The risk to my registration is palpable.

i don't sleep properly the night before a shift, so I'm clearly stressed by work, but hiding it well.

We have plenty of ambulance staff in my area currently (maybe a little bottom heavy due to recent recruitment of EMTs and ACA and extension of the paramedic diploma to a 3 year degree meaning a delay in new paramedics, but staffing isn't bad), but we spend most of time waiting outside hospital, and rarely hit a response time target, even for the most serious calls.

The problem does not lie with the ambulance service or even within the hospital, the problem is social care, where staff (mostly women) are paid a pittance, on crap terms and conditions to work a physically and mentally tough job. This is what needs sorting.

If the government committed to reforming social care and bringing them under NHS pay bands and terms and conditions I would happily take a pay freeze to support that as then I'd be able to do my job as it is meant to be done without the constant nagging fear of loosing my registration. But I can't see this happening, so will probably vote in favour of industrial action as I just can't carry on as I am.

I never ever wish to be in a position where people who work for the health service think I should be grateful for shit care because it's free shit care. The biggest issue is that so many in the NHS have bought the myth that it is free. It is not. It is free at the point of delivery.

This is exactly why I left the NHS OP, I’m working for a private care home and earning much more and have proper staffing. Yes I forfeit positives of the NHS such as sick pay above SSP, and my maternity pay was pretty poor as it was SMP, but in terms of the day to day job I don’t feel like I’m risking my pin every day like I did in the NHS. I honestly wish I could turn back time to
when I was picking which course to do at uni and scream at myself to Pick something else! It’s very sad what the Job has become. Been a nurse for 10 years so not sure what else i would do at this point! I will 100% vote for industrial action!

I know everyone thinks the NHS is amazing but having been on the receiving end of the NHS and have watched in amazement the blatant wastefulness it is no wonder the NHS is in trouble.

This hasn’t just come about because we have a Conservative Government (The same things happened under Labour)
and has been happening for decades

The NHS is in financial trouble but could still find the money to paint rainbow zebra crossings.

If it has spare money to paint rainbows then it either cant be in that much trouble or it needs to give up because it is beyond help.

This.

If I could have paid a three or even four figure sum to have had my DGM treated with respect and dignity by staff who actually gave a shit about a 90 year old, frightened woman on her own - or to just have her treated full stop to be frank - I would have done so in a heartbeat.

I support your industrial action. Your working conditions sound dreadful. I'm a union rep in my own job, and absolutely believe in the principle of collective action.
I absolutely don't agree with the previous poster who says professionals shouldn't strike. Any group of workers ought to be able to strike to improve their working conditions (within reason, which you more than are). Solidarity to you.

I support you OP. Thank you.

And for full disclosure I'm far from being a Tory or anti-unions.

@Bpdqueen

1. not every nurse or nhs worker smokes, the majority do not smoke so your point around smoking isn’t really relevant
2. Here’s a ward nurses POV: you have 30 patients and are working with 1 HCA. In the morning you have 30 sets of tablets to give out and assist patients with, you also have 30 lots of IV drugs to give out. It is your responsibility to also take patients to the toilet, ensure they receive meals and have a wash. Many patients require 2 to transfer or turn, some are bed bound. In addition to this every patient needs a set of obs. You get to bed 16 on the ward - your patient is unresponsive and navy blue with no palpable pulse or respiratory efforts.You pull the buzzer and start CPR. You put out a 2222 call. The Resus team will be running but can take up to twenty mins to arrive. The ward doctor might arrive if you are lucky but you can’t leave, CPR and BVM ventilation is to be given, drugs and life sustaining therapies, maybe they will go to ICU or family called in to say last goodbyes. Meanwhile buzzers are going and patients still need to be cared for. Regardless of the outcome you have an entire ward of patients who require cared for and it is already lunchtime. You continue with your drugs round and observations and the HCA continues to try and get patients to the toilet, washed and fed. Your patient who had a cardiac arrest has gone to ICU or died, you need to perform last offices and speak to family but there’s already a patient in AMU waiting for the bed. You are the only RN so you cannot leave the ward. You continue with your 30 sets of drugs and obs, there’s also blood sugars to check, insulin to give and dressings to do. A patient is going to theatre or endoscopy ? They need a checklist completed ?. The workload is unmanageable and just because you have been a patient in a room and can’t see the nurse or the nurse isn’t attending to you doesn’t mean the nurse isn’t busy.
3. Are you aware of a safety huddle? Are you aware of a handover? Are you aware that nurses have to liaise with specialities ? Doctors? Communication is a large part of the job. A nurse speaking to someone is part of their job.

quite frankly you seem to have the solutions so I’d urge you to pick up a shift on your local ward and show them how it’s done.

I can’t comment on food banks as I donate to them also.

I hope to work with you at the coalface soon

@CrocodilesCry

Have you complained?

Have you taken out private insurance now?

@CrocodilesCry
hi sorry but I can’t find your original post, but it’s not Tory or anti union to want patients to receive good care provided with dignity and respect - that’s what I want. I think we both want the same thing - your relatives and my patients to get the care they need ?

My DD1 is a GP trainee (7 years post qualifying as a doctor..she locummed before choosing GP)
My DD2 is a nurse.
I'm a lowly county council support worker who works with those with severe disabilities/end stage dementia.

I get it.
People think my DD1 is well paid. She bloody well isn't, her indemity insurance, her exams, all cost £££ and the SHIT she has dealt with over the last 7 years is incredible. Want someone to blamce... most start with their GP.
DD2 is a children's hospice nurse, looking after dying children and their families yet she's paid a pittance for what she does every day. She loves her job , is utterly passionate about it, but is barely meeting her bills.

The system is broken. The out sourcing is a farce (I had an MRI...waited 2 years..in May. No report yet).
I care deeply about the people I look after yet in some cases they really would be better off dead.. their health needs aren't met, their social care needs aren't met...

I think we need to move to a European system, the NHS is finished.

@Gakatsbsk

Poor care is never, ever acceptable

I do wonder though how people would cope in that situation.

How they would manage.

What they would do differently.

Absolutely on both counts.

@RosesAndHellebores

You seem to be the same age as my parents. Yet so different.

Your another one I hope to see at the coalface soon as you have all the solutions.

I will whinge about the party that is destroying the nhs (amongst things), if the Tories are that good and doing such a good job then why are you complaining about the nhs ?

I’m not sure how a “change of conditions” will make these aforementioned so called medical professionals any better at their jobs. All these issues occurred on the night shifts, where, every single time I left the ward to get something, or go to the toilet, there was a hoard of midwives/HCA’s laughing at their phones sitting on chairs across the whole night. I’d love to get paid to sit and laugh at my phone, quite frankly.

I am completely willing to accept that the day shifts had a completely different vibe and staff were working away, though. My point is that for some in the profession, it isn’t go go go every single hour of every single shift, like it is often stated.

The bragging happens incredibly frequently. There isn’t a single other profession that comes into store and uses their job as a way to get something for free/queue jump/get a special exemption made. It is entirely NHS staff. And they have all been incredibly rude when told no, as well.

I remember a woman from the hospital stay I had who had requested her tubes to be tied after her c section. I listed (unwillingly) to the surgeon try to talk her out of it for over half an hour in an incredibly rude and patronising manner, despite the woman and her partner having their (soon to be, at this stage) third child, she has made her decision and her partner fully supported her. This was also likely offered to her, as I had it offered to me despite having my second child and being under 27, so why one consultant would offer something and then another one try to take it away the morning of the surgery is beyond me.

I also remember another surgeon fat shame my own mother (around a size 16 at this point) who had went in for hip surgery (one hip first, then the other) as she had nearly zero mobility at this point, after being on a waiting list for 6 plus years. He had the groundbreaking suggestion of exercise for her, which was just fucking stupid considering she could barely put one foot in front of another, and had actually spent a few days over Christmas having to crawl on the floor as the pain in her hips was that excruciating. But yes, she was just lazy. Some walks around the park would sort her out no problem.

Surgeons aren’t badly paid. Some people are just cunts, and unfortunately the NHS hires too many of them.

@Topgub
I never said it was acceptable. I find it so unacceptable that I’m complaining and will strike.

@CrocodilesCry

What was the response from the complaint?

How much is private insurance for a 90 yo?

Does it cover emergency care?

And to do that will need more intervention than staff striking and pay rises.

The care my DGM received was neglect. Nobody that she came into contact did their job. Not one.

I have a friend who works in our local hospita(Wales) Its been bad for so many years now but definetly worse in the last 6 months re Staffing and No beds.

100% behind you OP

@puffalo

Again I’m sorry you had such an awful experience. I’d encourage you to complain.

Not every worker in the nhs is a cunt, Staff bullying is rife.

But do you not think that one nurse having the legally safe ratio of 10 patients would make their job easier and the care better rather than 40? Many seem to struggle with this and thinks the nurse should do it all. If you work in a shop that has a 10000 customers a day but only 2 workers would you expect the same services as if they had 50 workers ?

I personally can’t speak for maternity services but the whole NHS needs improved

My friend owns a business in hospitality he's moaning about staff turnover the good ones being poached. I did some research on a healthcare package for his staff with AXA surprisingly cheap. I went to him showed the figures and said set this up and staff will stay. Health care is so bad here they'll not be tempted to walk for more money because you're providing a safety net. He thinks I'm wrong. I think he's missing an opportunity.

Employers need to look at health insurance and start providing it. The sooner your employees are seen by a GP or other health professionals the sooner they can return to work

Please don't be facetious. I'm seeking private medical insurance for myself, DGM cannot.

But just because NHS care is free at the point of delivery doesn't mean that's ok for it to be neglectful, horrendously poor or essentially non-existant.

I never ever wish to be in a position where people who work for the health service think I should be grateful for shit care because it's free shit care. The biggest issue is that so many in the NHS have bought the myth that it is free. It is not. It is free at the point of delivery.

grateful? No. No one should be grateful.
people need to question. And more often than not the reasons will go far beyond the individual who provided the care when things are sub optimal.

after all, who would want to work or be treated for an institution that relies on free labour? Who turns a blind eye to racism and other abuse of their staff?

No one should be grateful for this service. Patients or staff.

Even the most skilled and well meaning staff, will be affected by the state of the NHS.
how could they not be? working for an organisation that is prone to racism, bullying and presenteeism mentality, with low staffing levels. This will come across in the care provided. Intention or not.

I think often people don’t know what they want from the nhs.
a return to the old matrons. A return to good old fashioned hands on nursing.
yet equally they want value for money, they want jobs done the cheapest way (and why would you pay a Matron for a job a health care assistant can do).

Realistically we all want safe and effective care. Yet clearly this isn’t happening.
the public would do better to stand by clinical staff with the expertise, to encourage the government to retain the staff they have, recruit and educate sustainably, and make the nhs a place young people and people from abroad would aspire to train/work in.

@CrocodilesCry

This is my advice

1. complain via PALS to the local hospital
2. if it’s Registered professionals who were professionally negligent you can complain to their regulatory body - NMC, GMC etc
3. complain to your MP/ the MP local to the hospital
4. if in England complain to the CQC

I have raised formal complaints with the NHS myself. I urge anyone with a bad experience to do the same.