Do the general public know how bad the conditions in the NHS are?

[Gakatsbsk]

Hello

Expecting to be roasted.

However, I’m an NHS staff nurse. Qualified almost 2 years. I’ve worked through the pandemic. I initially worked in England and now work in a different UK nation - which is better but only because England was so poor.

My union is about to start a consultative ballot for industrial action in light of the nhs pay offer. I have had two family ‘acquaintances’ (who do not work or have immediate family that work for the nhs) complain in one breath about delayed appointments, delayed A+E waiting times, cancelled surgeries etc but then in another tell me that nurses going on strike is disgusting, lucky to have a job, NHS more secure employment etc. These are of course English Tory voters who said this

For reference, I have never and will never cross a picket line and will be voting in favour of industrial action (whatever form that takes due to emergency cover staffing etc).

When I was a few weeks qualified as a nurse I was looking after double the safe ratio of patients in my speciality. Completely unsupported, me and my (equally junior) colleagues having to consult google for solutions to our patients problem, if a medical emergency occurred (in ICU there should always be medical cover - this isn’t the case) we had to pull a buzzer, put out a page and get on with it until a medic appeared. This has not improved post pandemic.

In my current workplace (same speciality area), different country we are the only part of the hospital that is safe staffed, because of this every single day nurses and HCAs are sent to general wards, A+E and different hospitals often to be the only RN on a ward for 30 patients. There is such a crisis of care home beds, and ward beds that patients are staying in critical Care for weeks waiting on a ward bed. On the wards patients aren’t able to be washed each day as there might only be 1-3 staff members for 30-40 patients, meds rounds take 4 hours and ultimately patients who are sick go unnoticed until they are peri arrest. Nurses from day shift often have to stay on to night shift as there is no night shift nurse available.

I have only had negatives from the general public - it’s our fault for having degrees and being too posh to wash, bring the matrons back, etc etc. our colleagues who trained in the 80s and 90s pre degree say it is the worst it has ever been for safety and staffing. Racism and xenophobia towards our brilliant overseas colleagues is rife when they keep the NHS clinging on by a shoestring.

Four and a half years ago I was a first year student nurse and times were hard for the NHS, it has only got worse and worse for my patients since then. For the sake of my patients I will take industrial action.

However, it is so concerning how anti union, anti public sector and pro Tory the English public seem to have become? The decisions and government of Westminster negatively affect every nhs patient and worker in the UK. Just look at the widespread abuse, disdain and disgust directed at the RMT workers recently. I fear the same or worse for NHS workers.

So, is this NHS worker wrong for not enjoying being told to be grateful to work for the NHS? Is there any future for the public sector of the UK?

I apologise if I seem to have generalised England but I am English and from a northern Tory heartland. An area completely brainwashed.

@CrocodilesCry

I'm absolutely not being facetious. You said you'd pay for your dgm. How are you going to do that?

And I absolutely its not ok for care to be neglectful, horrendously poor or essentially non-existant.

Hopefully your complaint will address why it was

How do you hope it will be fixed?

I sat in minor injuries for 4.5 hours the other week. Thankfully I was relatively good but the wee 84 year old soul with a blue, clearly broken in several spaces wrist was not. It appeared to be one nurse on duty.

We are doing all of this. Thank you.

Social care staff want more pay and better working conditions. NHS are. Not the only ones who want better. We look after residents to doing some thing nurses do.

I think it’s a lottery and a lot has been shit for ages.

i remember my Gran being in hospital having her leg amputed in 2003 ish and there were no blankets, she was freezing. I had to get some for her but what about people who don’t have relatives. The place was filthy as well.

on the other hand my dad has cancer and his care has been amazing

I fully support nurses, hospital staff at all levels however I don't have the same sympathy for GPs - our GP still thinks we are in lockdown, we are not given face to face consultation only over the phone-
Sorry but I find this ridiculous! I have 100% support and sympathy for all nurses and hospital staff

@puffalo YY Its bloody gaslighting and blame shifting. I know someone who is waiting for a knee replacement and has put on weight. He used to deliver TVs. Lift them and carry them up and down stairs (before flatscreens) He cannot excersise because his leg will just give way.

@Agreeeeed

Often those who complain the most are those who want to pay the least.

They want the absolute best possible health care. But they don't actually want to have to pay for it.

@Agreeeeed

I’m not sure where the notion of grateful has come from. Not me.

My mum trained with the old matron style system.

Are you aware that there has always been auxiliary nurses? This is the original role now called a HCA/ HCSW?

Are you aware that nurses who trained in the old system are still in the NHS today?

I work in intensive care. I provide all nursing care for my patients - HCAs do not provide direct patient care in my unit. Nurses on wards want to provide all care but due to short staffing are unable and instead rely on HCAs and students.

Thanks for your comment

How to European systems deal with their ageing population?

How is that care funded?

@Desiredeffect

Yes I agree 100%, I personally work in an nhs hospital and didn’t want to be seen as trying to speak for sectors I didn’t work in - I wasn’t trying to exclude those sectors in any way

It’s awful, isn’t it. I’ve seen a lot of threads on here regarding fat shaming, often coming from GPs, too, who often blame whatever illness the patient has as a side effect of being “fat”, rather than something deeper. So it’s left to the patient to either suffer on or keep going back, and back and back again.

My family have a history of hip issues (her brother has a hip replacement at 40 which is incredibly young for that sort of surgery), but no, no. They’re just lazy people and it’s their own fault, isn’t it?

GPs won’t get much sympathy from me, either. Getting a face to face appointment these days is as scare as hen’s teeth. Still standing outside the door in the rain before your appointment like you have the plague before you’re quickly ushered inside, screamed at to use hand sanitiser and then sat in a corner so you don’t come within 20 feet of the receptionist who spends most of her day walking to and from the front door, scowling at people.

I don’t think it’ll ever go back to “normal” at GP surgeries.

Nurses start wage is about 25 k. Minus the money they will have to pay back for the training they've just had. If they want a family or have a mortgage that will be nigh on impossible unless their dp is on a decent wage.They often have to pay to park at work. Then if you are a community worker you have a MILEAGE LIMIT of money for petrol...poor you if you are a rural worker you will have the pleasure of paying to work!!

My sister is a nurse of nearly 40 years. She did some vaccine clinics during covid...after tax and put on base rate she got about £30, a new entry nurse level. Her husband said it was hardly worth her while...but for the fact it was covid. Politicians get subsidised meals /drink /equipment and cry if they have to be in any way impoverished so repeatedly get a pay rise of 6 % or more. I am a nurse I moved from one speciality to another in the last year or so, i had to take a pay cut because despite having nearly 40 years nursing experience it wasnt my speciality so I was penalised financially, personal circumstances meant a geographical change.

Nursing is a very stressful job and has alot of responsibility, .....lives, .....not paper .....not money ....lives. Make one mistake and it could be disastrous. Try going to bed at night with that responsibility weighing on you. My friend triaged 258 patients in a&e today in one shift, she was shouted at and insulted throughout. There was still a queue when she left .

Stress does horrible things to the most mild mannered of people, but especially if those people are turning up expecting you to do the job of 4 people every single day. If every nurse got back the unpaid overtime they were due the system would grind to a halt.

To those of you complaining about nurses and reporting about the well paid nurses they know , those nurses have had to study long and hard and will have to continue to do so, then Pay every year £120 for the privilege of being a nurse.

Nurses dont have to privilege of going into an office and being selective about answering or not answering a phone call because they're too busy. They get sick too, feel unwell, tired and have the same stresses as everyone else but the way we are treated is as if we as human beings dont matter.

its a total lottery from which health trust you’re dependent on to which member of staff you get. If it makes anyone feel better (doubt it will) I’ve gone private twice in the last year and other than the speed of consultation the care on that side was shit too🙈 - do not get ill is today’s lesson!!

@EgonSpengler2020

Thanks for your comment - agree and very useful to have your experience.

An extreme shortage of care home beds and staff is causing flow problems across the NHS.

I hope things improve

The whole system needs fixing. Dd3's boyfriend needed an x-ray after an acident on a Friday evening (no,not alcohol or fight related in any way whatsoever). Our local A and E had no x ray dept open due to staff shortages. He had to be driven 20 miles to be seen. Imagine if that had been worse than a suspected broken arm.

Friend's husband taken in with suspected heart issues (60yo). Nowhere to sit so he stood for 4 hours in A and E. Luckily his heart was OK.

My dad taken in by ambulance - end of life kideny issues. Specialist nurse sent from HDU assured me she was monitoring his urine output and he hadn't asked for a bottle. I pointed out it was in his notes he had no bladder and had a stome.

On dad's death he had been in a covid locked ward. An NHS staff member had stolen his iPad and tried to log on from his home address. Complaint is ongoing.

Yes staff deal with some utter crap. A few let the side down by being utterly pathetic and rude. Such a pity for the huge majority who give their utmost.

The system needs more money. And fewer managers, less bullying, better money management and many more things to make it fit for purpose.

Yes and a lot of people who now require hip and knee replacements have spent their lives in back breaking manual work.

Just out of interest, what is your current salary, and how many hours pw do you work?

Again struggling to keep up with volumes of replies but please if anyone has had a terrible experience of the nhs complain.

I have raised formal complaints myself with the NHS.

Formal complaints from relatives are one of the few ways to justify funding - complaining often actively helps improve things

@Gakatsbsk you completely missed the point of what I was saying so you admit nurses get paid enough to not use food banks which is what I said. I don't know why your saying about smoking I was making a point that nurses do get breaks so I don't understand why they say they don't. I don't mean staff discussing patients or handover I mean standing around having a laugh and joke which there's nothing wrong with but don't say you don't have time to pee. I have been in many different wards in different hospitals under different trusts and never once seen only 1 nurse and 1 hca look after a whole ward of patients (do you not have any student nurses at your hospital). Even night shift where you don't need as many staff there always seems to be more then enough and you often hear them talking and laughing at the top of their voices when the patients are trying to sleep again not a problem but stop making out your so hard done by. Don't you realise patients are bored in hospital so spend a lot of time watching the staff so we are all fully aware you do have breaks you do chat about a night out or a new kitchen and you do pee.

@CrocodilesCry

that is shocking there is absolutely no excuse for such neglect

unfortunately some wards are badly managed and poor attitudes from staff

this can’t be excused I’m glad you are complaining

@QueenOfHiraeth which profession may I ask? You might boost your profile by mentioning it!

@RosesAndHellebores is like a moth to a flame for any thread to complain about the NHS.

BUT (and I can't believe I'm going to say this), I can kinda see why. I've had mostly good experiences of being a patient or a relative with the NHS, but also some pretty bad ones. I had an awful experience when I took my dad to A&E (pre covid), the triage nurse was so rude, barely looked up from her keyboard at us and rolled her eyes. The ward he got sent to had nurses shouting their orders for costa coffee to each other, no one introduced themselves or seemed bothered that there were patients and their relatives present, and there was more eye rolling at a patient next to my dad who had dementia who kept shouting our for help.

I've also been a nurse for nearly a decade. I think there are staff who have been working in the job too long, are completely burnt out compassion wise (or just have a bad general attitude), or just don't care or lack common sense. I have worked with some shocking nurses. Not many, but a fair few now. I'd also say there is too much management and faffing about with audits etc. Not enough staff on the shop floor. Six patients to one registered nurse is the absolute maximum that should be allowed on an acute medical ward. Though I've never worked on a ward with that ratio, the lowest number I've had was 7 patients, the most was 15 and that was hell. Thankfully I don't work on a ward anymore, and wouldn’t for all the tea in China!

Oh, and yes the NHS is completely fucked. Especially when you look at life expectancy. It can't carry on, not sure what the answer is though.

The notion of being grateful came from a previous poster. Questioning why they should be expected to be grateful for sub standard care.
I agreed they shouldn’t.

however I Was considering why should nhs staff be grateful to work for the current system the way it is.

I was considering the fact people are quick to complain that it was better in the past.
but aren’t really clear about what the modern roles incorporate. Meaning the public who blame low standards on nurses having degrees. As if this would be the reason someone missed their bath.

and yes, thank you for asking, I’m aware there were auxiliary nurses, and now health care assistants. And that many nurses who trained years ago still work in the nhs today.

@LivingOnAnIsland

Is it me your asking?

I’m a band 5 nurse in Scotland.

My basic wage is £26,104 before deductions. At two years ( a few months) I will be eligible for incremental raise. With shift enhancements for working nights and weekends I get around £28,000 a year. Usually £1700-£1800 a month after deductions, again dependent on how many unsocial hours.

I am contracted to do 37.5 hours per week. To fulfil this I work 13 x 13 1/4 hour shifts. 3 weeks of 3 shifts and one week of 4 shifts. Breaks are unpaid.