A question for the pro-life members of MN

[SemperIdem]

The biggest argument always boils down to “taking a life away, acting like God”.

So - how does IVF sit with you? Are you anti it, because it is “acting like God”. Are you for it because acting like God to create a life is somehow fine whereas taking one away is not?

Do you understand that many IVF pregnancies are high risk and may ultimately require medical management aka abortions?

I’m firmly pro science and think access to both abortions and IVF is a wonderful thing, for avoidance of doubt.

One never sees protests outside fertility clinics and I wondered why.

I think it’s because God is seen as a creator so maybe IVF is acceptable due to that ?

Excellent point!

I’ll add I’m not religious I’m just trying to say what I think someone religious might think about it

I’m not at all religious so struggle to fathom how you can be fervently anti one but pro the other, it is two sides of the same coin to me.

Also defibrillator machines, chemotherapy, any manufacturered medicines, any life saving surgery... Surely if it's God's will then we should just let people die from broken bones and the common cold instead of interfering?

I know a few people who are 'pro life' and they are staunchly anti IVF.

@Lovetogarden2022

That seems the less hypocritical stance to take, from the pro-life perspective.

A lot seem to be able to separate the two as though they’re not the flip side of each other, which is wildly hypocritical to me.

Me too. One told me to my face that I should just have accepted my infertility and adopted. I was holding my new born ivf baby at the time!

Those I know who struggle to accept abortion on Christian grounds would say that every life is sacred and a miracle.

Don't agree with abortion.
Don't agree with IVF where embryos are held in stasis and sometimes destroyed or used for science either.
Don't agree with surrogacy.
Don't agree with sperm donation.

I think I'm consistent in respecting the value as opposed to the disposability of human life.

But I did not always think that way. I've come to it gradually over time.

I've been waiting for the discussions around IVF. Th

Me too.

I actually prefer pro-lifers who go the whole hog rather than ones who throw in all the usual rape/incest caveats.

I do a lot of work in fetal medicine & it usually takes me 10mins to get an ‘except for rape/incest’ pro lifer agreeing to all sorts.

drives me mad that they put caveats on women’s choice. I think either have the courage of your convictions (& fuck off) or just fuck off. You know?

The only person I know who will openly say they are anti IVF is a staunch atheist. I know several religious people (though I do not know their opinion of abortion to be fair) who have had IVF or fertility treatment.

Believe me, plenty of pro life people are anti IVF. The two things go hand in hand when you think about it.

There's embryos which are discarded. Surely it's the same as abortion? How does stem cell research fit in?

The Catholic Church absolutely does not allow IVF, or abortion. But it does allow surgery to save the life of the mother, which may / will result in ending the life of the embryo / foetus. An example would be surgery to remove an ectopic pregnancy. What is happening in some states of America and many other countries does not come from RC Church teaching with regards to the ridiculous aim to replant an ectopic pregnancy.

ive known a handful of antiabortion women who have had IVF. They, just like anything, justify it to themselves as it effects themselves.

God has allowed us to create the technology to make it all happen. I have no issue with IVF. I do have an issue with abortion but making it illegal is absolutely the wrong decision and will cost lives from unsafe back street abortions. And we should not impose our religion others.

I think you’re rather brave (maybe not the right word… ballsy?) for coming on here to say you don’t agree with abortion

Respectfully - Im genuinely interested to hear why that is - do you have a blanket disapproval on it or would you agree that sometimes it would be for the best ie a very young mother / rape / incest / life limiting or incompatible conditions etc?

I also don't see how the death sentence and switching off life machines fit in. But then I'm of the mind that if this is all God's/Allah's will then remove medical support.

The objection to ivf is usually the selection of embryos and the destruction of those not wanted. I think it’s a difficult. There are lots and lots of people who think life starts at conception but are not anti abortion in all situations.

I knew someone who was struggling to conceive but was anti IVF. I found it baffling.

In IVF clinics in some countries multiple embryos are transferred to increase the chances of pregnancy then selectively aborted to two or one to avoid multiple birth. Don”t think pro lifers would feel happy with that.

Interesting. I assumed the anti-choice crowd would also be anti IVF due the potential destruction of blastocysts that aren't needed or are less viable.

I have seen several doctors express their fears about pre-implantation screening for genetic disorders and that they think access will be restricted.

I’m not against abortion. I wouldn’t describe myself as pro life or fully pro choice in a mumsnet sense (because I believe in time limits and balancing of rights).

But from a Christian perspective the bible say “do not murder” and also that God knits us together in our mother’s womb.

As far as IVF goes, in the bible humankind are told to ‘go forth and multiply’. So it could be seen as fulfilling that command.

The Christians I know who had IVF either carefully managed how many embryos they made or donated their embryos to another couple. So certainly the concern about destroying life as part of IVF is something some Christians think about.

I also know A LOT of Christian adopters, some of whom will have chosen that in preference to IVF.

"One never sees protests outside fertility clinics and I wondered why."

But pro-life people are against IVF... They might not protest outside the clinics, but still.