A question for the pro-life members of MN

[SemperIdem]

The biggest argument always boils down to “taking a life away, acting like God”.

So - how does IVF sit with you? Are you anti it, because it is “acting like God”. Are you for it because acting like God to create a life is somehow fine whereas taking one away is not?

Do you understand that many IVF pregnancies are high risk and may ultimately require medical management aka abortions?

I’m firmly pro science and think access to both abortions and IVF is a wonderful thing, for avoidance of doubt.

One never sees protests outside fertility clinics and I wondered why.

I don’t think the parameter is logic, for these people. It’s belief, which doesn’t need to be rational or logical.

IVF for use in genetic screening? This would involve the destruction of blastocysts which have the genetic disease.

We are talking about terrible diseases such as oesteogeneis imperfecta, Huntingdon's, familial Alzheimer's, Batten disease, muscular dystrophy etc.

@LilyMarshall agree re justifying it because it affects themselves. Like the people who would receive an organ donation but don’t wish to donate their own.

I similarly don’t understand - what will pro-life women so when faced with an ectopic pregnancy, septic uterus or retained miscarriage. Risk death rather than have an abortion?

There are lots and lots of people who think life starts at conception but are not anti abortion in all situations.

I guess this would be me. I'm a lot more pro life after having had IVF than I was before. Before IVF I was very pro choice but now having seen my babies heartbeats at 6 weeks and seen what they look like at every week of pregnancy, having seen 23 week babies in NICU I'm much more in favour of reducing the time limit to say 12 weeks.

My friend had ivf where they only fertilised one egg at a time so there would be no spare embryos.

IVF and abortion are different things so I don’t know why you’re trying to link them.

But then what about abnormalities not being picked up until 20 weeks?

I was raped. Despite the morning after pill I ended up pregnant - did God factor that in?

there was no way I was going to carry my rapists baby - I never asked for my DNA to be mixed. Abortion was not traumatic for me it was a relief. Forcing me to have the baby and give it up for abortion or raise his baby - was like being raped daily - I literally felt like that every day to the termination. I just don’t get it.

@SemperIdem

I had 2 ectopics actually - both ruptured and I nearly died twice. To me what happened wasn't an "abortion" - my tubes were removed and so were the babies.

@PurpleDaisies

Giving potential life and ending potential life are two sides of the same argument if we’re going with “acting like God”.

Science has given us the ability to do both. Why is one wrong?

@Pumperthepumper

I think there is still a place for TFMR after a reduced time limit. I just think 12 weeks is enough time to decide whether you want a baby or not for social reasons

@LadyAnnabelsTapestries, could you explain the resistance to sperm donation? Is it viewed as akin to adultery or something? Because on the face of it objecting to sperm donation presumably would make it OK for a woman with an infertile husband to get pregnant by normal sexual intercourse with another man.

I similarly don’t understand - what will pro-life women so when faced with an ectopic pregnancy, septic uterus or retained miscarriage. Risk death rather than have an abortion?

I think you’d be hard pressed to call the treatment for any of those things equivalent to an abortion.

There are lots of good arguments for allowing safe, legal abortion. It seems silly to try and use things which really aren’t comparable to make a point.

It is though: something like 90% of abortions are done before 12 weeks.

Science has given us the ability to do both. Why is one wrong?

I’m not saying either one is wrong. Have you confused me with someone else?

@Pumperthepumper

So actually a 12 week limit shouldn't affect that many women so shouldn't be controversial to bring in?. There are a lot of threads in Pregnancy Choices beyond 12 weeks though - I'd say more than 10%

They are all examples of necessary surgeries intended to save the life of the mother. The RC Church has no issues with these. The mother’s life is important.

The aim of those people making abortion illegal on America has nothing to do with the life of women.

@AmaryIlis

I would imagine it's the aspect of deliberately creating fatherless (or motherless) children although the poster doesn't mention an objection to use of donor eggs?

So you dont agree with a cancer patient freezing his/her embryos so they can have children after treatment?

I dislike abortion and i also dislike ivf...
I also dislike surrogacy and sperm donation...
Most pro lifers I know don't like ivf as well...
Some pro lifers aren't against ivf because they don't know exactly what it involves whereas abortion is quite clear ( ending an unwanted pregnancy)

It would affect the 10% of women who get one after 12 weeks.

And just think about that for a second - a woman decides at say, 16 weeks that she doesn’t want the baby. How do you force her to want it? Who do you force her to look after its emotional and psychological needs when it’s born?

I find the term 'pro-life' revolting. One in three, perhaps nearly one in two, women in the UK will have an abortion in their lifetimes. The majority of them are or will become mothers.

They are not somehow not 'pro-life'. They are not 'anti-life'.

But from a Christian perspective the bible say “do not murder” and also that God knits us together in our mother’s womb

The bible also says that life begins at the first breath and that during pregnancy the foetus is classed as "a part of the woman" (paraphrasing)

I’ve just checked and it’s 93% of abortions that are done before 12 weeks.

The Catholic church opposes both IVF and abortion. That is well known.

Being pro-choice and being pro-science are not at all the same thing.

And why do prolifers feel the need to impose their view on everyone else?
dont have an abortion it is your choice
Why do you need to impose on everyone?
Your religious view is yours