Sick of the push for Scottish independence

[ThisKiltIsMadeForWalking]

I keep seeing on the news that Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for another referendum and I just don’t get it. If she doesn’t get the answer she wants this time can she push for another in a few years? I just find it disgusting that half the country are struggling badly for things like food/electricity/petrol and she wants to spend millions pushing for something that she wants, that the majority voted against a few years ago? Am I missing something?

Still too many unknowns and unanswered questions for me to consider voting Yes.

Even further put off by the Brexit shitshow. I think many people will be put off voting Yes at such a time of turmoil and hardship.

Even my die-hard Yes voting in-laws are pissed off about the timing.

The SNP should go back on their promise of a referendum for the obvious reason that they have no legal means of providing one.

The SNP do not have a mandate for a referendum. Only 34% of Scots actually vote SNP, but they keep getting seats purely because the unionist vote is split between Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem parties.
The majority of SNP supporters don’t want a referendum for at least 5 years either, according to innumerable polls. Yet Sturgeon ploughs on regardless, to try and distract from her abysmal record in office.
And even Sturgeon recently admitted that Scotland would be financially worse off if independent- without the UK subsidy from the Barnett formula, adrift outside both the EU and UK, with a 25% deficit that would preclude EU membership for decades, and a hard border with their largest trading partner. And if they continued to use the pound Sterling with no agreement, they would have zero influence on interest rates or currency valuation. The whole thing is an idiot’s pipe dream, appealing only to the economically illiterate. There would be a massive exodus south of higer rate taxpayers, capital investment and businesses.

As a ex-member of the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon has absolutely no intention of another referendum. Absolutely none. She has her next job lined up and will continue to "dangle the carrot" while she kills time till she goes.

I actually agree with that. I don’t think IndyRef2 will actually happen.

Not Scottish, but have several Scottish friends who've experienced nasty bullying over the independence issue. My personal wish is that Scotland stays part of the Union, but I do get the fact that Brexit has changed the game somewhat.

Although I would be sorry to see Scotland separate, I respect a nation's right to self-determination - I'm just concerned at the way the SNP and some of their supporters behave. And I get depressed at the anti-English feeling which some of them promote. Wanting Scottish independence doesn't have to involve near-racist (yes, I know it's not actually racism - but such virulent nationalism that comes pretty close) attitudes to English people. I don't know how the Scottish govt justifies their policy, for eg, of allowing free university education to everyone (including overseas students) except the English! Imagine if it was the other way around. I blame that idiot Australian bloke - Mel Gibson, that's the one -and his inaccurate film, Braveheart.

Also - I think that only 60% of Scots voted in the last IndyRef, and around 50% of those were for independence. Therefore the total pro-independence is something like 30% of the total population.

Is that to me? In fact that’s true in recent years but previously Scotland was a net contributor to the uk. The fact you think this is some sort of permanent situation is an issue.

in any event it’s often said that Scotland needs to be subsidized by England even on this thread. And even your quote above would seem to indicate you think it too.

on the other hand what evidence is there I have a “chip on my shoulder” (other than again the old racist stereotypes of chippy Scots)?

Its exactly likeBrexit. There are a lot of people living in extreme poverty (yes vote is highest in areas of poverty, lowest in areas of affluence) who would vote for independence as they don’t think their lives could get much worse - and have no understanding of the economic and trading conditions which would indeed make their lives so much worse. And politicians who are happy to tell these people any sort of lies to get their vote.

Go on then, prove I'm wrong. Electoral Commission says 63/129 seats and 44.1% of the vote. No mandate.

YABU in principle; self-determination isn't an event, it's an ongoing social contract and a right that cannot be given up. There are no official or legal limits on the number of successive referendums in the Scotland Act of any other relevant legislation. "Once in a generation" was a comment/observation/prediction from Alex Salmond, said in the context of urging people to vote in case they never had another chance. It was never a binding promise or a policy statement. The Good Friday Agreement has a built-in limit for an Irish Reunification poll, which cannot take place any less that 7 years after the previous one. Why should Scotland have less flexibility?

As for the current government at WM - yes, they'll eventually be replaced, but the larger issue for Scotland is the growing perception/realisation that they can never influence the outcome of a UK national election. Even if every person eligible to vote in Scotland had gone to the polls in December 2019 and voted (for example) Labour, the Conservatives would still have won an outright majority of seats in the HoC and therefore the first right to form a government.

YANBU to think it's a waste of time at the moment. Polling shows the appetite has not increased significantly despite the assumed game-changer of hard Brexit. And the issues that weren't addressed at the last referendum still haven't been addressed, despite a majority at Holyrood in November 2017 authorising the Scottish government to seek a Section 30 "when the shape of Brexit is clear". And now a new set of issues arise because of the UK having left the European SIngle Market and the Scottish government pledging to rejoin the EU (which is out of their remit to promise and therefore needs a concrete backup strategy).

I feel voting for any big over promised change is like the fleabag hair scene, if you want to change your life, change YOUR life. Waving any kind of flag is a temporary feel good consumption.

You said English view Scot’s as parasites. I don’t know any English (lived there many years of my life, lots of friends from every corner of the UK) who have ever expressed any such view of Scot’s - ever. They don’t even think about such things. You’ve said you think Scot’s are viewed as parasites a number of times, and I just don’t think it’s true at all.

This is not difficult. The SNP are in government on the basis of the election results, ergo they have a mandate. It's seats that count when it comes to driving the agenda of government, not % vote.

Scotland doesn’t give free education to everyone except the English. That’s absolutely untrue. Overseas students have always paid large fees and pay more than the English (who I believe pay the same fees as for English universities). There was previously a reciprocal agreement with EU countries on university fees but that was due to EU regulations so may not last.

My dds were born in England and have strong English accents (also they are mixed race). They have never experienced racism for being English in Scotland.

Of course people are racist in Scotland like everywhere. But I do not believe that there is a particular issue with racism with independence supporters or the SNP. I have certainly never seen any sign of that.

@CulturePigeon for info, voter turnout at the referendum was 85.59%. By comparison it was 63% at the last Scottish Parliament election (highest ever turnout).

Apologies, 84.59%

The percentage of the vote with the greens (an independence supporting party) was more than 50% anyway.

Indy supporter group (twitter @ nowScotlandnow released the most disgracefully racist video yesterday on Twitter to the adoration of its followers. Need we say more?

You are aware of the even greater economic damage this would do to ordinary Scots on top of the current situation? Just because she’s anti Tory doesn’t make Nicola Sturgeon right about separatism. Do you know how toxic 2014 was for Scotland? You want to inflict that again?
the SNP have shafted Scotland through sheer incompetence for 15years, it’s a shithole compared to what it was and they take zero responsibility. Bunch of nationalist wankers.

Sorry @CapMarvel Greens and Alba and SNP got over 50%

MN is very anti-Scottish Independence, and very anti-SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. Any excuse to bash either one of these is relished.

I think Scottish independence is inevitable.

I agree. They haven't delivered on any of the big issues. They also quite dishonest and lack transparency. They don't have integrity, as a party. They do however have an excellent self-marketing strategy, have some small fish popular policies, and NS is great at sound over substance in the way a good marketeer is.

I am agog really, at how the people of Scotland are so taken in by the self-promotion and marketing of the SNP. I feel the way about that, the way I did about Boris when loads of people loved him despite it seeming obvious to me he was devious and with his own agenda. Wish people would wake up to NS and the SNP in the same way.

I really miss the days of proper grown up serious politicians. Don't seem to have them in the UK anymore.

The UK government lied to Scots in the last referendum. They will not listen to the lies again.

I voted no last time as I thought the upheaval with the EU was not worth it. I will vote yes this time.
I fully expect when Scottish independence happens MN to be full of shocked threads. But MN has never been good at knowing what the general public think. The demographic here is very specific and not reflective of the general population, that is why they wrongly predict lots of votes.

No it wasn't. Greens got 4.7% giving a total of 48.9%

Scottish NHS is not atrocious. I have used it for my family a lot over the last year and have been very impressed. Quick operations and very good care in two different hospitals.
People make these broad sweeping statements and probably have not stepped inside a Scottish hospital for years. I have spent about 50 days this year visiting different relatives in hospitals or accompanying them to appointments. I have a lot of experience of what they are like.