Sick of the push for Scottish independence

[ThisKiltIsMadeForWalking]

I keep seeing on the news that Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for another referendum and I just don’t get it. If she doesn’t get the answer she wants this time can she push for another in a few years? I just find it disgusting that half the country are struggling badly for things like food/electricity/petrol and she wants to spend millions pushing for something that she wants, that the majority voted against a few years ago? Am I missing something?

Yes it’s what she wants. Then what - the economy would be completely wasted and womens rights would roll back to the Stone Age.

what is she on???

The SNP were elected (by a percentage m the Tories could only dream of) with a manifesto that was very clear about a second referendum. The have a democratic mandate to do this, it would be undemocraric not to do it. According to the UN charter of rights, countries have a right to self determination.

Personally, I think the more shit things are economically and the more people who are struggling, the more important this is. Westminster will never sort this out for us. If we want a shot at things getting better for people in Scotland, we need independence.

The fact that the SNP has never, not even for one millisecond, respected the result of the 2014 Referendum is hugely bad news for Scotland's economy going forward.
It totally undermines inward investment of all kinds and encourages higher rate taxpayers to relocate to other parts of the UK for certainty.
Equally skilled professionals from the rest of the UK will not want to relocate here even temporarily.
I will admit to being relieved that my recently graduating DC has taken the job offer in England over the two he also got in Scotland.
I can't be the only one.

There's a reasonable compromise to this. Agree to hold a referendum once every 10 years as part of local elections.
Given that much notice, costs can be absorbed or shared, and she can stop boring the pants off the rest of the population.
I believe absolutely in self-determination, the Scottish people must be allowed to choose but preferably without Shrilly Cranky at volume.

It's irrelevant though. General elections are fought on the basis of manifestos, not individual issues.

Indyref 2 was in the SNP's manifesto, they walked the election ergo they get to deliver on their manifesto pledges.

The point of a referendum would be, somewhat obviously, to sort out the SNP voters (and indeed the voters for other parties) who do or do not want independence.

When it comes down to it - putting aside party political issues etc - the question is whether you think a country should have the right to determine it's own future, and to say "no" to that is fundamentally anti-democratic.

"The fact that the SNP has never, not even for one millisecond, respected the result of the 2014 Referendum"

Well, it has. Scotland hasn't unilaterally declared independence as far as I am aware.

The No campaign was fault on the basis that if Scotland wanted to remain in the EU, it had to remain part of the UK. That worked out, didn't it.

I've just read in the Press and Journal about how high schools in Moray are only able to teach maths once per week due to lack of funding for new teachers.

I think this is a diversion from the SNP away from how much the standard of living in Scotland has dropped under their rule and under devolution. Previous threads have gone into great detail about the dangers of an unrestricted unicameral legislature, how EU membership is unlikely and independence supporters have claimed that is untrue, the EU will welcome a tiny impoverished country on the periphery of Europe offering no buffer with Russia or Belorus with open arms. The UK isn't great but alienating our nearest trading partner and being outwith the EU is a nightmare. You would think the SNP would have had long enough to build up some sort of relationship with the EU where they could offer a near cast iron guarantee of membership on independence. All they have are a few lone wolf MEPs claiming "support".

I find it incredibly stressful living in a country like this with this constant political turmoil. To be honest, for most Scots who live in the central belt, life is pretty grim and its only because they don't know any different that they put up with the awful public transport, infrastructure, education system, low salaries and hard work. Might as well live abroad if you want to enjoy the Highlands and Islands as its not any easier to get to from the central belt than getting on a plane.

Scotland would be much better run if the government focussed on running Scotland better. A successful Scotland within the UK doesn’t suit their needs though. They want to see a Scotland on their knees so they can say ‘see, things would be much better if we were independent. I’m so sick of it. They have the powers to run this country so much better than they currently are - but they don’t.

I want to see:

No more money invested in propping up failing companies (ferries, Prestwick airport, Bifab) but that money instead invested in development schemes to attract new investment and industries to Scotland

No more free uni with capped places for Scot’s - instead have tuition fees with uncapped places, and plough the savings into bursary schemes for the poor.

No more free dentistry or prescriptions for those that can afford it. Plough that money back into better NHS services.

No more free school meals for all. Plough that money back into better education.

could we also please look to increase the nuclear power provision so that we can have electricity when the wind isn’t blowing?

If the SNP wants independence, it should hand back the Barnett formula and show how it can live without it.

Ok so if you don't want independence why would you vote SNP instead of Tories or Labour?

Why help a party into office that clearly calls for a second referendum?

(Genuinely trying to understand!)

It's absolutely painful living in Scotland and going through this. I really, really hope they just call a ref asap to get it over with and then concentrate on the day job regardless of the outcome.

For those living here, with a family here, kids in school here, the political turmoil is constant. All of those flippant ‘if you get independence I’ll move their in a shot’ comments are so steeped in ignorance it’s unbelievable.

I don’t think they really want to win a referendum. They are hard to beat at the moment because those who do want independence vote for them regardless of how much they actually like their policies and that creates a harder barrier for the other parties to overcome. If independence was achieved then a huge chunk of their voter base would bugger off. The MSPs would probably splinter into different parties anyway but lots of them would lose their cushy “don’t look at us, blame those Tories” number.

I'm sick of it - I am English, she should stop pushing for independence and go for a take over of Westminster instead - sick of bloody Boris the Clown.

The vote split between the unionist parties is larger than the SNP vote but fptp system makes it look as though we are all rabid Indy fans. Please give us more credit!

Putting aside the politics for a second, you describe a really odd situation that I am genuinely fascinated by. People clearly voted them into government, but then voted against their key manifesto pledge ie independence. The referendum got a higher turnout than any election (IIRC, about 90% vs 60ish on a good day for a general ?). Why aren’t those “missing” voters coming out for a general election? What would the results look like if they did? It strikes me that they are not so motivated by a general election but ARE for a referendum on the county’s future. Will this happen again? Will the two sides campaign differently this time based on this knowledge? It’s fascinating.

Because Scotland regularly votes for a socialist party to administer domestic issues either at local authority level and now at devolution level as a counterweight against England. So whether its Labour or the SNP, its simply the same pattern of voting. Then after a while, they see through the unfulfilled promises and corruption and another party becomes de rigeur. Voting for an independent Scotland is an entirely different issue.

(I don't vote for any of those parties you mention btw).

The SNP put something in their manifesto that they don’t have the power to carry out. They’ll find this out this afternoon. We all knew how unworkable it was in 2019x

Scot in Scotland as well, this sums up my feelings of another 'once in a lifetime vote' 🖕

Brexit is not a disaster, and I doubt the EU would welcome Scotland as you have no money.
The EU is making life difficult for England out of spite, if you go and read some economics on the EU you will see they are failing badly.
Does Scotland really think that if it gained independence they would really be free and not controlled by an unelected body ? cause that's what the EU is.
Im glad we are out

This is very true. Not being in Europe has changed things dramatically.
For me, the SNP seemed ok at the time of the last referendum, at first with covid NS seemed to perform well and be a good leader; but handling covid went badly wrong after that and they are so far down the path of eroding the rights of women that I can't see how any woman votes for them anymore.

The SNPs main policy is independence for Scotland. They are voted in on that basis by about half of the electorate. Also it’s right that Scotland gets to have another referendum given we’ve been dragged out of the EU against our will.

what you are missing op is democracy. You might find the SNP and their push for independence “disgusting” but it’s very popular in Scotland as is the SNP.

You are missing the whole premise of Brexit I'd say. It changed everything.

Scotland's infrastructure is totally fucked but hey spend millions on an independence campaign

Seems ironic that many people were supportive of Brexit on the grounds that they didn't want Brussels to make decisions for them but are not happy that Scotland have to be governed by a conservative government they in no way voted for.

Let's not forget the No vote last time highlighted that it was the only way to stay in Europe which again Scottish people voted to do in the Brexit referendum.

I think Scotland has as much right to take back control as the UK/ England.

It is irrelevant, so there was no point in the previous poster saying it. People vote them in as they don't want labour or Tory and after that you don't have much choice. It's interesting though when the councillors of the local councils aren't all snp and aren't snp held. I don't think they have as much support as they'd like to believe.

They can decide, but are they/you going to accept another no? It was a no only 8 years ago why do we need another so close? It's like a child screaming fo