Sick of the push for Scottish independence

[ThisKiltIsMadeForWalking]

I keep seeing on the news that Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for another referendum and I just don’t get it. If she doesn’t get the answer she wants this time can she push for another in a few years? I just find it disgusting that half the country are struggling badly for things like food/electricity/petrol and she wants to spend millions pushing for something that she wants, that the majority voted against a few years ago? Am I missing something?

At the moment only Scotland and Wales have a functioning government. Maybe Nicola and Mark should draw up plans to rule the whole of the UK (including NI, and tell the DUP to bog off, too).

I don't like him either and it's good he's falling from grace but it's the civil service who keep things moving. Hence the country doesn't fall to pieces when man in suits resign

Quite. The level of ignorance shown by a few PP is astonishing. Thankfully UK Gov is not a personality cult, unlike the administration up here in Scotland. We have a Chancellor, Home secretary, Foreign secretary, deputy PM, functioning parliament and the civil service to tide us over in the meantime. We elect governments, not PMs and long may that continue.

We don't elect personalities? Look at the threads on MN alone that say people voted Tory last election because of Boris. I've heard it countless times IRL too, "I'm not normally a Tory voter, I voted for Boris". Our government is a laughing stock, most of them have realised that and quit.

I'm in Scotland and the Scottish Government has exactly the same scandals, which remarkably haven't resulted in resignation. Sturgeon was found to have misled parliament but because she didn't do it deliberately, she was let off. That was in relation to another First Minister, Alex Salmond, being charged with and acquitted of several sexual offences. Previous First Minister Henry McLeish resigned after a similar drawn out attempt to hang on due to a "muddle not a fiddle" because he failed to declare rent he received from sub-letting his own parliamentary offices - unbelievable. Jack McConnell left under a cloud of sleaze to return to the gravy train public sector along with his wife in Glasgow.

Scotland hasn't even had that many first ministers and 4 of the most recent ones have been embroiled in scandals.

Then theres the MSPs themselves. Former Labour MSP Mike Watson was convicted of wilful fire raising after setting a pair of hotel curtains on fire and only resigned once he was sentenced to 16 months in jail. Former SNP MSP Bill Walker was jailed for a series of domestic abuse incidents on 3 of his former wives and a step daughter. Former SNP Finance Secretary Derek Mackay claimed 10k in expenses in his final year as an MSP, despite not attending parliament once. Former SNP MSP Mark McDonald eventually resigned following a series of sex pest allegations against him by women working in the Scottish Parliament.

Currently, SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford is facing calls to resign regarding his support for SNP MP Patrick Grady, who is facing allegations of sex pest behaviour against a 19 year old in the Commons bar. The complaint was upheld but the initial sanction by his own party was to suspend him from parliament for 48 hours.

I'm not seeing anything fundamentally different in the Scottish Government from Westminster in dealing with these scandals. What is notable is the lack of reporting of them and the lack of strong newspaper coverage in Scotland at the moment - The Scotsman newspaper doesn't actually sell all that many copies, although obviously people read it on line. However these scandals are simply not publicised in the way that those involving the PM and members of the Westminster cabinet are.

I met Sturgeon and Salmond before any of this, years ago, when I lived in Scotland. That's just anecdotal though. I came to knew, one through work and one socially, 2 SNP MPs who I'm pleased to see are free of any scandals, I would genuinely be surprised if they had been involved in any, though.

Wrt Salmond, if he was acquitted, then he is not guilty? Boris has been found guilty of breaking the law while in office.

I'm in Yorkshire and admittedly not an avid news reader, I tend to skim headlines for the most part, but I have heard of every one of those stories relating to SNP members, apart from Mike Watson.

Press coverage differs because Westminster has more power, and is responsible for the entirety of the UK. While I think it is (mostly) relevant to all of us, there won't be as much widespread coverage of the devolved parliaments since people in England won't generally be as interested. I wouldn't blame people in Scotland for not caring about HS2 much, for example, whereas before the monstrosity was scrapped, a lot of lovely, biodiverse green places fairly close to us were going to be obliterated, and it was infuriating that the concentration was on getting commuters from A to B faster, as opposed to our parks and nature reserves being destroyed, while our MP sang its praises. However I accept that someone in Milngavie or Kilmacolm, for example, probably couldn't get too worked up about it.

To be fair, Watson's offence was committed about 18 years ago so not something recently in the news.

Boris has been found guilty of breaking the law while in office.

No, he hasn't. He was issued with a fine and had the choice of pay it or take it to court. If he'd taken it to court he could have "been found guilty of breaking the law while in office." He didn't, and he hasn't, just like countless other people who were fined for lockdown breaches.

..... sure it's not.

Why did he get fined then? Why did he not appeal?

This screenshot is from i newspaper (which is usually, I think, reliable), but if you search something along the lines of "is Boris Johnson the first Prime Minister to break the law?" you'll get lots of sources confirming that he is. He also acknowledged the fact during PMQs.

What a weak argument. This was voted pre Brexit amongst other things. Hardly a shock peoples minds may have changed. People in Scotland voted to remain in EU in the Leave referendum, but their wishes were not respected as they were part of the UK overall. At least they should have the chance to revisit independence in this context.

As previously discussed, the opinion polls have barely moved since the Brexit vote. Brexit doesn't appear to be the fundamental change worthy of triggering another referendum that the SNP claim.

TBH, the argument doesn't hold water anyway. A split from the UK would be far more cataclysmic for Scotland than a split from the EU. Over 60% of Scotland's export trade is with the rest of the UK, predominantly England. Barriers to that trade would be erm..... Not good.

@darlingdodo but the thing is England has barriers to everywhere apart from wales, so i don’t feel it will be as big an issue for Scotland as brexit.

The polls haven’t moved much since brexit I agree. But, I do personally know quite a few people who have moved from no to yes. I wonder if yes’s to no’s will be more likely to change their mind if a referendum campaign starts.

Whatever happens, I just hope there is a decent consensus, we all want the best for Scotland.

@PineapplePear ummm do you understand how trade tariffs work?England doesn't have any barriers currently to the Scottish market there is no price difference nor many many pages of paperwork to be produced for shipment of food produce for instance. All of which drive up cost and not to mention a trade tariff for a hard border again driving up costs.
I suggest doing some reading into how trade works and non EU/EU goods transportation before coning out with bizarre statements that you don't think it will be as big a issue! A hard border is a hard border that means shed loads of paperwork and cost for goods especially live produce (Scotland is a big seafood producer)

Of course there will be additional costs for cross border trade. You can't have a border without some form of checks being carried out. Are you suggesting that an independent Scotland wouldn't have customs? If so, what is the point in it being independent? Control of trade and the ability to favour local producers of goods with favourable terms compared to third party countries is one of the main benefits of a country existing!

And considering how keen the Scottish Government is in pushing more red tap onto Scottish businesses with its ever increasing tendency to license, tax, authorise, certificate and regulate any form of business, it is clear that there would be considerable checks on goods entering an independent Scotland from England. How else do you think Scottish businesses would be able to compete against cheaper mass produced goods from the massive market of England?

This is the typical blithe nonsense statement about really important matters that SNP supporters tend to come out with.

Funny how the country manages to run itself without the "help" of politicians.

An FPN is essentially settling the matter out of court. A bit like Prince Andrew.

2 things in response to these 2 quotes:

1. The SNP were careful not to mention too much about independence at the last election. Instead they pushed the idea that people should vote for them as the main opposition to the tories in Scotland, regardless of voters' views on Independence.

1. The SNP might have 80% of the Scottish seats in Westminster. However this was achieved on the back of 45% of the vote. This is mainly because the unionist vote is split 3 ways (Con, Lab, Lib). Given that the 45% who voted SNP include people who 'want to get the tories out' but don't support independence then the independence 'mandate' shrinks further.

No it isn't.

An FPN has different statutory standing and can be challenged in court by the person receiving. If you don't - you're admitting guilt.

The SNP are shite. Arse-clenchingly so.

They have failed in every area of government. They listen to no one. They wouldn't even bar trans sex offenders from women's spaces in spite of massive opposition to their daft plans.
Scotland is a dictatorship in all but name: no effective opposition; no second chamber like England's House of Lords to negate their worst excesses.
My nightmare is that Sturgeon continues in power for years more.