Sick of the push for Scottish independence

[ThisKiltIsMadeForWalking]

I keep seeing on the news that Nicola Sturgeon is pushing for another referendum and I just don’t get it. If she doesn’t get the answer she wants this time can she push for another in a few years? I just find it disgusting that half the country are struggling badly for things like food/electricity/petrol and she wants to spend millions pushing for something that she wants, that the majority voted against a few years ago? Am I missing something?

As usual I post about economic stuff and get insults about back of a fag packet.
I posted the link last time and a number of quotes from the analysis. Everyone ignored it to continue with the insults.

Many countries with modern single document constitutions do require a special or weighted majority in favour of constitutional change, defining that as the big issues which affect the everyday lives of the people.

There are proposals to bring that in in the UK but they haven't been acted upon and it remains unclear what would be involved. After the close vote of Brexit, it might not be a bad idea. But then you would simply have people claiming that a vote ignored the wishes of the majority of the people. I can't imagine it flying in the light of recent moves by Sturgeon so you could argue that she is delaying the bringing in of much needed constitutional safeguards in the UK as a whole.

We might also consider bringing in compulsory voting on these issues too.

I honestly think Scotland will vote no again, and at that point we truly put it to bed

not a chance, sorry.

Any country in which more than 30% or so are pro-independence is simply unsustainable long term. For Scotland it’s clearly not a question of if rather than when. Surely better to take the leap sooner rather than drag it out over years - the same outcome is coming it’s simply a matter of when

Do the other 70% not matter then?

Not that the figures are anything like that, I'd wager by the time this referendum happens the figures will be in the other direction.

Wasn’t the voting age lowered - 16 year olds without jobs, mortgages, loans or kids. Idealistic and lacking life experience. Id guess we were all ‘freeeduuuuuuum’ at that age.

So yeah, allowing the people who the outcome would actually impact, as opposed to bitter old tory pensioners voting for brexit when they won't live to see the full shitshow?

I guess we can all make sweeping judgements about entire generations of people.

Oh gosh yes!!! Lived in Scotland for many years, and the anti-Scottish abuse down here is rife and downright nasty, whereas in Scotland people were nothing but welcoming. Certainly never experienced any anti-English abuse.

I think independence would be great, don't suffer along with us under the Tories, it's getting worse and worse. Why do you think Westminster is so against Scottish independence? It's not because they love the country so much they don't want to see it go...

not a chance, sorry.

the no part or it going away?

"But then you would simply have people claiming that a vote ignored the wishes of the majority of the people"

That is why I would suggest a close vote in either direction will automatically require retesting at an agreed time eg 10 years, once either side hits 60% the retesting stops and majority vote enacted - whether that is stay or go. But enacting a 60% majority would definitely mean the majority of the country is behind it, it truly would be the wishes of the people then.

And in the meantime rather than battling as to whether we hold another vote etc etc we get on with life. Yes the vote year would mean we are discussing it again but it allows certainty and allows debate to be healthier imo.

Antelopevalley, that's not really true though, is it. Several posters have posted very detailed answers to your posts, or have posted detailed information showing independence is not a great idea, and you have dismissed both.

I won't get to vote on what passport I am entitled to as I don't live there.

I am more in favour of independence now than i was in 2014 largely due to Brexit and the corrupt UK government.

BUT

The SNP are really really shit and just as corrupt if not more than BJ and his cronies.

Sturgeon has the same relationship with the truth as Johnson.

They hate kids and women too and have got some seriously dangerous laws planned.

My personal experience is the NHS , Social Care , Education is nowhere near as good as it should be.

Now the same can be said for other parts of the UK, but she puts herself up on this pedestal, whilst lying through her teeth.

Not sure the timing is great too! It would be a massive shock to Scotland in the short to middle term and not sure it's wise post Covid and the biggest cost of living crisis most of us have ever know, through into the mix the instability in Europe due to Russian aggression.

So yes, maybe to independence at some point, but God help us if it happens under her and her parry.

This is a sensible idea and it does tend to produce more stable governance. Most countries do require a higher than 50% majority for changing the constitution to protect against political posturing. Its a 2/3 majority of both houses of parliament in Germany. Its the same in The Netherlands. In Norway, a 3/4 majority is required for constitutional change. In Switzerland it was 3/5 of voters who approved the most recent constitutional change, but requirements vary. Rules on referendums vary and many countries don't use them. Quebec is probably the best example of constant neverendums, always voting no. No wonder the SNP is pushing Gaelic.

Countries such as Venezuela and The Philippines tend to have governments which abuse human rights and get away with it - a strong political party can do what it likes in those systems.

Its not necessarily a bullet proof protection though, as Poland has shown - Poland, despite being in the EU has had its independent constitutional judges replaced by political appointees to shore up the position of the political party in power.

I voted no last time but I very close to a yes, at the time I felt more information was needed.
This time will be a concrete NO from me, I no longer vote SNP either.

Tbh I’m not sure how any woman can vote for her when she’s happy to see our rights rolled back to nothing.

The last referendum was awful to live through, so much division and fighting, I’m dreading it happening all over again.

The SNP will not be in power after a referendum. I attended a conference before the first referendum, with Nicola Sturgeon - she actually said as much.
The referendum is not a yes or no for the SNP, it is for an independent Scotland. That's the problem, people will vote no based on a dislike for the SNP.
When it comes to women's rights, you won't be much better off stuck with us. Boris doesn't care, Rees-Mogg seems to actively want to erode them.

What does this actually mean in practice?

Is the SNP going to disband if independence is achieved? Or is it a crafty political manoevure to try and win over the voters who dislike the SNP? I think its obvious to anyone that should a country become independent, new parties and players might emerge but the central issue right now is whether the population want independence, not what might happen to particular politicians.

It would be helpful if this could be laid out clearly in writing, rather than anecdotally!

Ditto written details on currency, EU membership, the economy, tax, the constitution, the ECHR, etc.

And again, a simple yes/no I presume and no referendum vote on the deal.. why does the IndyRef have to ape tory brexit mistakes where the actual leaving deal on the table is not subject to a referendum again?

It's worked out so well after all.

@Loics I'm glad you haven't experienced anti English sentiment unfortunately I haven't been as lucky including being told to go home, booed at, told nobody wants my kind as well as more threatening behaviour
I can certainly say it does exist and is way worse around election times but referendum was horrific. I've lived here 12+ years my children were born here I'm just glad they won't be in school yet to be bullied for having English accents from DH and I!

I've had anti English sentiment when I lived in Wales and it wasn't pleasant. I've also met some wonderful warm hearted lovely people there as well. It's sad we all can't just rub along, but divisions do exist and there is a lot of English hate from many sections of society.
(The way our current government is behaving I can't wonder at it though)
It'll be interesting to see if they are granted another go at this.

You said everything I wanted to say

I have to say I’ve received anti-Scottish sentiment from English people several times, on holiday abroad or in England. Does that mean it’s a majority view? No, some people are just nobs. Ive met more lovely people from England. I don’t think English people experience more ‘racism’ than any other in the uk.

I will be voting yes, the consistent lack of regard for Scotland I.e. in brexit and it’s follow up discussions, were a final nail. Further reinforced by the fact we need permission from the uk government to hold a referendum in this ‘union of equals’.

There is much I love culturally about England, but politically we are on different paths.

Theres a bit of a spat involving a Scottish solicitor trying to attract the attention of the Justice Minister to the problems in funding for criminal legal aid in Scotland. Considering that one of the main points of having devolution is to bring government closer to the people of Scotland, its disappointing that the response from the only MSP who responded was "“catch yourself on” followed by a series of laughing face emojis.

The solicitor in question is leaving her job to work to work for a Geneva based business in commercial and finance law and is clearly a highly respected professional in other parts of the world. Scotland cannot afford to keep bleeding people like this.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/3439455/angus-mp-slammed-for-mocking-critical-lawyer-with-laughing-face-emojis/

Exactly that.

Sorry that should read MP.

@LadyLaSnack I’ll be voting yes. I like Nicola. I think she carried the country through the pandemic. I don’t want to be tied forever to the tories as is the Westminster default.

😂😂😂😂

Fucking really??

Do you know where the money for the furlough scheme came from? The vaccines?

It really fucking scares me that people with this mindset can have a vote over this!