To teach my 12 year old how to count calories as well as teaching what a balanced meal means

[Wills]

Firstly to those mums who want to shout before reading what I’m saying please note I’ll ignore your posts. I wouldn’t post on an AIBU unless I was really worried what I feel I’m about to do and hope that between me, and Mumsnetters that don’t shout, that there is an alternative out there and am hoping some Mumsnetter/s have solutions I don’t have.

My DD (aged 12) is the youngest of 4. All of us have struggled with weight (including myself and my mother) but I have made it ONE of my mothering focus points (amongst other things) to teach my children what a balanced and healthy diet looks like. All my kids have struggled with their weight but with guidance have sort of come round. Once they’re post 18 I feel its their decision to be who they want to be, but (and sometimes this is unasked of) try to guide their decisions to healthy eating - my point being that its fine for them to be ‘large’ but I always stress a balanced diet and healthy exercise routine.

However, in the last year DD3 (4th child) has gone from an age 12/13 age child clothes to an adult size 14 and in certain skinnier shops 16. All my normal coping strategies have failed. She’s like a heat seeking missile for sugar. I rarely buy biscuits/sweets/cake (for 2 years now) and before she was born, given my other children’s fight with weight have given up my love of baking. So there are no typical biscuits/sweets etc as a norm in the house (which my other kids complain about - but what do I do? If I bring in anything sugary she finds it - including under my bed (HOW - does she have a sugar sensitive nose FFS). Sorry about the swearing but I do feel she’s exceptional.

So just over a year ago she had a wonderful bonding experience with her granny (Their grandad is dying with dementia - to be blunt I didn’t think he’d still be alive when I last saw him at Xmas/Easter). They put together a raspberry crumble including oats. As ‘treats’ come this seemed like something that was wonderful for her to learn.

Fast forward - so I have stopped buying ‘snacks’, biscuits, puddings - in fact anything that might represent a treat (feel like the grinch). But DD3 is really intelligent/clever! For the last 9 months I daren’t have sugar or flour and butter in the house! If I do she gets up at 5.00am in the morning and puts together a crumble mix that would feed (with fruit) four people and then eats it for breakfast. I’ve stopped buying sugar and flour, which was fine when 2 of my kids where at Uni, but they’ve come home and bought the stuff themselves and get upset when its gone in the morning.

I try to punish but 3 out of 4 of my kids are autistic spectrum. My youngest is not. I can see the elements of spectrum that she shows but I do believe most of her behaviour is learnt.

So… Please help me. I’m very aware that just being aware of calories is shortsighted. So just teaching her to calorie count is crap, but if coupled with an emphasis on what represent’s a balanced diet - what else can I do.

To give an example…. She ate 3 full fat sesame bagels for breakfast. How do I tell her this is unreasonable without her screeching at me that I’m calling her fat.

Hope you see my difficulties.

REally really need some guidance as have run out of ideas!

As someone who grew up with a mother who constantly talked about weight and dieting and micromanaged food intake, I'm sorry to say that I think you might have set your DD on a cycle of binge eating. I don't think calorie counting is going to help here, because your DD already knows that her eating is out of control if she's been getting up at 5am to make herself a fruit crumble for breakfast. You've got a lot to deal with with your DC and you sound like a lovely, caring, well-meaning parent, but I think, speaking from my own experience, your DD needs professional help in the form of counselling, and you might benefit from it too.

Oh wow! Thank you. I always felt (pre kids) that parents with fat kids were awful at parenting. It”s just typical that my kids have taught me humility! I really hoped/believed that with my knowledge of good ‘eating’ my kids would never struggle the say way as me or my mother. I was soooooo wrong!

I so agree, but the professionals are far from being professional. As I’ve already said in a previous post, DD2 also struggled with her weight at the same age. (For the record she’s now 18 and I’ve asked her, repeatedly, how I could improve but she doesn’t have an answer 😥). When they came in to help DD2 and I they didn’t know so many fundamentals including (and this is just one of many hiccups) that Aspartamine is carcinogenic - i.e cancer inducing. Because of my husband’s (their dad’s) history they have already be listed as particularly open to cancer. Not trying to seek history - just that my kids can’t have been raised to know they can’t have Aspartamine. It’s a no-no.

It kind of sounds like you've taught her to be obsessed with food and now she has a binge eating disorder. Counting calories isn't going to help. Do you not provide any treats at all? It looks like you've tried to restrict too much so she is now obsessed. Normally kids are fine to have a treat/pudding every day as part of their balanced diet.

I agree.

Your DD has a binge eating/emotional eating disorder so you have to be very careful about anything that could lead her to crash diet.

I wasn’t given enough food as a child and it led to me stealing when I was younger and eating anything and everything - that turned into emotional eating and then as I was putting on weight I would crash diet and binge eat and I spent my entire adulthood in a binge eating cycle.
I then had my DD and was very strict on healthy eating and so now she’s started the bingeing, she’s also autistic.

It’s not easy but I have actually brought more treats in. And I try and make them from home so they’re less processed.
At first there was a set amount and once it’s gone it’s gone. Of course she’d scoff it all in one day at first but she started to save some more and more.
When it’s not off bounds then it isn’t so tempting.

I’ve steered clear of the weight conversation and I say about how too much sugar can lead to diabetes.
So it’s fine to have treats but eating too many every day if you get diabetes that means you can barely have any treats.
I also make sure she has 3 meals a day and remind her to not snack too much between meals.

Teens need to eat a lot so it’s difficult but so far it’s working for me.

If this doesn’t work for you then I wonder if instead of calorie counting something like weight watchers or slimming world (not sure which is better) would be better if they are more about healthy choices.

Ive never counted calories but then I've never been overweight and it sounds like a reasonable approach. Does she actually know she's overweight? Because as a parent it's a hard conversation to have but a necessary one.

Have you thought about allowing all foods, healthy and unhealthy but moderating portions? It's basically the same as counting calories.
When I had a problem with DC weight , and they asked for help, I came up with a traffic light system. Nothing was forbidden but some foods could be eaten as much as they wanted, others in moderation and some just now and then.

I’d agree with lemonswan different body genetics need different proportions of fats/carbs/proteins. But also listen to the recent radio4 series& your DD should listen to it “a through examination of Ultra processed food by Drs Chris & Zand the twins. Really interesting look at how UP food alters the bodies need for that type of food. Is your daughters scientific? Would a tac like they did work? Learning all about food from a non-emotional science way? So not calorie counting but learning what it does in the body and what to eat to get the best sports performance or too feel good
.
your DD sounds like I was /am and I too have a young ASD Daughter who I can see having the same issues. Yet my other DD sees food more as fuel & never over eats, genetics plays a huge role as neither of my siblings are overweight but I always was.

@Fink .
Are you me?
Exactly the same issues!

@Wills
Few suggestions
agreed treat days where you buy her favourite desserts. You walk to the shops to buy it and buy exactly what is needed.

Give her a stash box with biscuits, bars, sweets for the week. When it's gone it's gone until restocked.

Do you have a healthy balanced diet?

I definitely think it’s easier to teach these things when we model them ourselves.

I do calorie count myself and buy treats that are lower in calories - popcorn, sugar free jelly, ice poles etc. So my DD feels like she’s not being deprived but there’s also fewer calories than other treats.

This is a lot of health issues in your children. Do you think you might have medical anxiety?

Re the calories - it DOESN'T WORK.

I'm voting for ADHD based dopamine seeking behaviour.

I was overweight from a similar age.

Cured only once I was diagnosed and medicated for my ADHD.

Binge eating yes. But chemically lead by the lack of dopamine thanks to ADHD. So you can ignore a lot of the "you've given her an eating disorder" bullshit that lots of perfect mothers are laying on here.

She can't help it. You didn't cause it. But it can be fixed.

No, I think calories will create more problems.

I do know what it's like to have a child who can't self regulate and won't eat wise food choices though. It's hard.

There are lots of medical conditions that make someone's body not respond in the ideal fashion - lipoedema, PCOS, underactive thyroid, diabetes, insulin resistance. When I am properly medicated I can eat intuitively and I lose weight, because I eat well. When I am not, I can't do that. Losing weight is easy when you have a normal body. It's impossible when it's too hard because of these other conditions. I've experienced the difference in natural appetite suppressant and having none - I never felt full until after medication, only physically stomach stretched full. And feeling satiated after I went through leptin resistance was amazing, the difference is incredible. These two points were 15 years apart.

So whatever you do, stay body neutral and avoid diet culture morality. Sure, it's nice to be thin and have the world smile on you, but you can be fat and happy.

Thank you all for your comments, especially those not critiquing. If you don’t mind have read, and will re-read in the morning. So thankful for those comments that don’t simply say don’t do it. It’s so hard. Given that 3 of my 4 children have a diagnosis of autism and 2 out of 4 are waiting for an ADHD/ADD diagnosis this was never going to be simple. She has ‘tendencies’, but no obvious symptoms, but in many ways that’s unfair to her. I just want to teach her how to be healthy. Not skinny/fashionable - a size 16 that does loads of exercise will ALWAYS be preferable to a size 10 with zero exercise.

Need some sleep (have loads of other child driven issues) but am so appreciative of your answers. Will look through first thing in the morning. Thank you mumsnetters!

It sounds like there is something else going on. I think you may need to get some help to see if there is something else going on.

Perhaps it is emotional eating or sensory seeking but I would want to rule them out before you take your chosen approach.

What is her activity like? Are there opportunities to up that.? Couch to 5km together?

Look up the hand sized portion guide. It's not something I follow, but some people find it works well for them

A standard rule used to be: drink a glass of water before you eat anything. Stops you confusing thirsty with hungry.

I personally confuse tired with hungry, so I have a no food after 9pm rule of thumb.

Thing is, you can't have it all ways. You have to work within a framework wether that is calories, carbs, hand sized portions, not eating certain things. There is no way you can consciously control what you are eating without any kind of schema. You are already a person who isn't normal, who isn't staying naturally at an approved weight, so you have two choices, so it differently or be fatter than people seem ideal

Haven’t read tft yet but I’d be inclined towards offering everything in moderation. By hiding treats under your bed you’re making them forbidden fruit. I’d talk about what foods are good for making you feel full too (without having to eat them 3 times).

Do you think it's likely that your mum passed on her weight/food issues to you? What work/therapy have you done to try and understand your own issues with food and the way you feel about your body and make sure that you are not passing on the same to your DC?

You said you have always been open about your weight issues with them - what does this entail? If you have modelled body dissatisfaction and low self-esteem then the likelihood is that your children have aquired this themselves. Low self-esteem combined with restriction and perception of foods as good/bad is the root cause of binge eating.

You sound very defensive. Are you sure you are truly open to engaging with other perspectives and committed to understanding the root issues? Or are you here seeking confirmation for what you have already decided is right?

This is not about food, it is about your daughter's poor mental health and the underlying causes. She has an eating disorder. She needs a gentle approach with professional help and unconditional kindness. I'm not surprised to hear of your poor experiences with healthcare providers so far. Sadly the NHS is often unhelpful. It sounds like your DD would benefit from private psycotherapy.

What resources/research have you found to support you so far? The Ellyn Satter institute is fantastic. www.ellynsatterinstitute.org/product/feeding-with-love-and-good-sense-12-through-18-years-2/

Sounds frustrating! There's quite a few ways to approach that. What did you try and in what way did it fail?

OP there's so much to be read into your post... it really does appear you've somehow projected many of your issues with food onto your DD, who clearly needs some unravelling by a professional.

But at first home:you've used phrases like "punishment, full fat bagel etc" . It's clear your own relationship with food needs some better levels of understanding and that balance doesn't mean eliminating major good groups.

I've never met a grown adult who's hidden food under their bed, this is not normal behaviour, though I can read in your post that you're desperate to make some changes in your family line. Which is great, however your current methods are unhealthy and not working...

What are you trying to achieve with calorie counting?

Not all calories are equal, I think this is a terrible idea when things are clearly not right.
Could you contact your daughter's ASD team re food obsessions? And also seek a GP referral to a dietitian? Also consider other elements like hitting puberty versus any meds she may be taking.

The one positive o read into your post was how enthusiastically your DD replicated your fathers crumble recipe. If you could maybe get both booked into a healthy cooking course together over the holidays to encourage understanding of balancing food and nutrition, along with making her own informed better choices would that work?

I hope you get some help- please find proactive alternatives to calorie counting . X

Calorie counting only works healthily in an environment of body acceptance. Look up HAES. Calories are information, but calorie counting is for losing weight, you have to be detailed about it. Knowing the nutritional value of your food is a different skill, one that you learn with calories as a part off. It's important to know that this is 500cals and this is 200cals but this 200cals is empty sugar but this 500cals.has protein and fibre and fat and low GI carbs, and I need 500cals for lunch anyway.

Calorie knowledge allows you to eat, it avoids the "you mustn't eat, you're fat" diet culture message that leads to binging and starving rather than consistent slight deficit and steady weight loss.

Some autistic people cannot recognise when they are full or they mistake another feeling for hunger. They have a disconnect with introception. Id guess she has struggled with toileting issues too. This is likely whats going on as you mention its been an issue for all your dc. Unfortunately it cannot be cured but it can be managed with strategies. You need professional help here.
You could make a start by implementing a solid routine around food. Without making it a big deal. So you all eat at the table at the same time every single day. When this happens its a balance of food in appropriate portions. Its easier said than done though if she will simply help herself at other times. This is why you need support from specialists. You can use visuals to support this routine. You can also use visuals to teach portion control and healthy habits. Again you need professional help here because using visuals needs certain techniques. Its counter productive to simply print off a whole routine in one go and needs to start very simply with 2 visuals using now and next strategies. Even for dc who are verbal and seemingly able to communicate well.

Are there any sen support groups in your area?

As I have a child (suspected ASC) who is slowly recovering from anorexia I strongly urge caution in making food more of an issue.

There are strong links between ED and ASC.

If she does a lot of sport she will need a fair amount of calories, it's also normal for pre teens to gain weight as this kick starts puberty.

I would put a few rules in place around what's an acceptable amount for your dd to eat but not restrict her if she is hungry.

It sounds like you have a lot of anxiety around weight gain and have fat phobia which you need to make sure isn't passed on to your kids.

OP and her family clearly have lots, and lots, and lots of various issues. I think the food thing is the least of her worries and think it is telling she is fixating on this.

To give an example…. She ate 3 full fat sesame bagels for breakfast. How do I tell her this is unreasonable without her screeching at me that I’m calling her fat.

Don't keep bingeable food in the house, for starters.

This
poor kid