To teach my 12 year old how to count calories as well as teaching what a balanced meal means

[Wills]

Firstly to those mums who want to shout before reading what I’m saying please note I’ll ignore your posts. I wouldn’t post on an AIBU unless I was really worried what I feel I’m about to do and hope that between me, and Mumsnetters that don’t shout, that there is an alternative out there and am hoping some Mumsnetter/s have solutions I don’t have.

My DD (aged 12) is the youngest of 4. All of us have struggled with weight (including myself and my mother) but I have made it ONE of my mothering focus points (amongst other things) to teach my children what a balanced and healthy diet looks like. All my kids have struggled with their weight but with guidance have sort of come round. Once they’re post 18 I feel its their decision to be who they want to be, but (and sometimes this is unasked of) try to guide their decisions to healthy eating - my point being that its fine for them to be ‘large’ but I always stress a balanced diet and healthy exercise routine.

However, in the last year DD3 (4th child) has gone from an age 12/13 age child clothes to an adult size 14 and in certain skinnier shops 16. All my normal coping strategies have failed. She’s like a heat seeking missile for sugar. I rarely buy biscuits/sweets/cake (for 2 years now) and before she was born, given my other children’s fight with weight have given up my love of baking. So there are no typical biscuits/sweets etc as a norm in the house (which my other kids complain about - but what do I do? If I bring in anything sugary she finds it - including under my bed (HOW - does she have a sugar sensitive nose FFS). Sorry about the swearing but I do feel she’s exceptional.

So just over a year ago she had a wonderful bonding experience with her granny (Their grandad is dying with dementia - to be blunt I didn’t think he’d still be alive when I last saw him at Xmas/Easter). They put together a raspberry crumble including oats. As ‘treats’ come this seemed like something that was wonderful for her to learn.

Fast forward - so I have stopped buying ‘snacks’, biscuits, puddings - in fact anything that might represent a treat (feel like the grinch). But DD3 is really intelligent/clever! For the last 9 months I daren’t have sugar or flour and butter in the house! If I do she gets up at 5.00am in the morning and puts together a crumble mix that would feed (with fruit) four people and then eats it for breakfast. I’ve stopped buying sugar and flour, which was fine when 2 of my kids where at Uni, but they’ve come home and bought the stuff themselves and get upset when its gone in the morning.

I try to punish but 3 out of 4 of my kids are autistic spectrum. My youngest is not. I can see the elements of spectrum that she shows but I do believe most of her behaviour is learnt.

So… Please help me. I’m very aware that just being aware of calories is shortsighted. So just teaching her to calorie count is crap, but if coupled with an emphasis on what represent’s a balanced diet - what else can I do.

To give an example…. She ate 3 full fat sesame bagels for breakfast. How do I tell her this is unreasonable without her screeching at me that I’m calling her fat.

Hope you see my difficulties.

REally really need some guidance as have run out of ideas!

When you say that she does a lot of sport, what do you mean? There's a difference between someone doing athletics for an hour after school where they might throw a javelin a few times and run a few hundred metres whilst largely chatting to their friends and similar age girls doing county sport training with intensive drills for 90mins a few times a week.

No, but I would expect other issues. Equally my 2nd daughter did this. Her solution (to loose weight) wasn’t balanced! I seriously want to teach my children how to eat a balanced diet. DD1 is (thankfully) great at this. But that’s the end of my teaching. DD2 is at Uni and of great concern to me. DS1 (3rd child) has struggled but is listening to me so I hope he’ll start balancing a nutritious diet with exercise. DD3 - Ugh - like I said at the start she’s like a heat seeking missile for sugar. I struggle with my own weight. I’ve never hidden this from my kids as I think its a battle that should be open and honest. BUT OMG she doesn’t listen at all! And she’s my fourth child and I’m really worried.

I don’t want to armchair diagnose but as you mentioned your other children are autistic and there’s higher rates of comorbidity with that - is it at all possible she has ADHD, or anything similar? Poor impulse control, boredom, and craving for dopamine through carbs & sugar are all risk factors that can make people (especially women and girls) struggle with binge eating as a side issue. I know I do.

I think you've made it more of an issue than it was. Would just having the things in the house so she can eat what she wants work? It's amazing for them for the first week but after that people tend to self regulate. At the moment she has to binge because there is nothing in the house that is nice to eat.

Saying that don't do this if she is actually bingeing

Erm...No, I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. Taking biscuits out and not making cakes is punishment, not having those things in the house is punishment.

Teaching her how to eat them sensibly is the right way forward.

I think you need to get her some professional help. I don't think calorie counting is going to work from what you've said. Good luck.

The oldest three are diagnosed with autism. I strongly suspect she’s on the spectrum as well. But, in terms of her eating, so what? What do I do? How do I help her? It’s so hard! She’s the only one without a diagnosis and yes I might, one day fight to get her one, but how does that help her cope with now? I feel this is a non-starter unless you can come up with a way to cope with her autistic tendencies that will allow me to help her overcome her sugar affection/effiction (sorry can’t spell).

Speaking as someone who was a fat child, was a super obese adult and now is an adult with a fat disorder, teaching someone about calories is proper empowerment. If we can expect people to be able to manage their money, we can expect people to manage their calories. Modern calorie counting with digital scales, packet information and a mobile phone app changed my life for the better. It gives you the information and the power. However you do need to teach about the basal metabolic rate and the activity level multipliers.

Once you have calories down you can work on how to make the best of your food, low GI carbs, high protein,.some fats.

Keep it neutral. It's like a bank account. No judgement, just information.

Hmm, it sounds like you have pushed your past issues with weight on to your daughter. You've made it into a "thing" when healthy eating and some treats could have just been implemented naturally, as part of a lifestyle. Please don't demonize certain foods. Best of luck with the situation

Hmm it’s a tricky one. Three bagels is a lot but then I’ve definitely had half a loaf of bread in one go plenty of times, I’ve always been active though so depends on your child’s activity levels I guess.

some things to explore with her and for your own eating perhaps…
What was on the bagel? Could you teach her about healthy vs saturated fat (peanut butter vs dairy butter)? Will she now skip lunch or mid morning snack because these bagels will keep her full for a good few hours?

Could you buy whole grain bread, or thin sized bagels instead then three maybe wouldn’t be so bad? Normal bagels tend to be full of sugar. Could you request that she fill half her plate with fruit or vegetables and then there’s only so much room (inside her and in the plate) for extras?

is she very active? I need a lot of carbs, always have but it’s because I’ve always been a big walker/ jogger etc. i used to eat a bag of chips on the way home from school as a teen and then I’d have dinner as well when I got home but my walk home from school was 30 minutes. I naturally stopped eating unhealthy when I got older because I started to feel like shit, perhaps your daughter will eventually too.

Another suggestion would be to explain to her how much food costs, my mother would have slapped me silly for eating three bagels, not because of concerns of my weight but because she had six children to feed.

I am also mindful that at 13, daughters like to rebel against their mothers so keep that in mind. I’d say gentle nudges without criticism and lead by example. Could you cook together and make it fun? Or try some new restaurants, go vegan/ vegetarian for a week just for a change, things like that might get you both more positive about food.

Thank you! So its relatively easy to calorie count in this day and age, but can you suggest how to I can help her (and my other kids for that matter) to put together a good balanced meal. My mum was always on an diet, holidays abroad were dependent on her achieving some weird weight. So I’ve always gone out of my way to not talk about weight, but equally they (my kids) need to know how to put together a balanced diet and that should include overall calories. So thank you for acknowledging it!

You mentioned autism - could she have ADHD? People with ADHD often have a lot of dopamine-seeking behaviours and are vulnerable to addiction.
Not necessarily ADHD, there could be processing reasons behind it, not recognising thirst (is she drinking enough water in this weather?) or an emotion or tiredness etc and not being able to distinguish from hunger.

I think she probably needs some mental health support,

This. With bells on. You need professional support.

This is sooo the basis of my post. Thank you! I agree, and its my thinking. Calorie counting can’t be done without looking at one’s (I sound like the Queen here 🤣) over all intake of a healthy food. But…. I’ve tried to teach all 4 of my kids from the start. Society believes (or so I feel) that good parenting involves teaching our children a balanced diet and introducing them to ‘good’ food. It’s something I really believed when starting our family, but that’s a great principle but bloody hard to enact.

Its like never giving your child antibiotics. I fully believed none of my kids would ever have antibiotics - antibiotics in 2000 were scum - kids needed to build their own defences. Yet at the end of year I was seriously asking my GP whether it would be better to have a ltr bottle of antibiotic in my fridge so I didn’t need to be constantly phoning the surgery for yet another dose cos my eldest had serious ear issues.

Hilarious how reality can change your thoughts. She had soooo many ear infections followed by 6 operations for glue ear. You start with so many ideals and very early on (in your parenting world) they have to change. `Ugh!

She’s my youngest. My husband is now in the position whereby we’ve taken out of mainstream where she was teased (mercilessly for being overweight) into private. Its our first experience of private. Private do soooo many sports. So yes she’s constantly doing at least 1 - 2 hours sport a day.

Thought I’d responded to you. So see where you’re coming from. Thank you

It's really tough, I feel for you. My dd is a similar age and a lot of this behaviour is familiar (the accusations of fat shaming if I mention anything; the magic finding of any food that enters the house, however well hidden; the difficulty keeping the house sugar free because of the other people who live here not cooperating ...).

What I find especially tough is that a lot of her eating now is done outside of home, at school in particular. I'm lucky that her journey to and from school doesn't include the possibilty of going into any shops, but I know that's another source of unhealthy eating for many. And unforunately her school tuck shop lets pupils continue to buy products even when their account is overdrawn, so just refusing to top up her account doesn't work. So although her suppers are reasonably balanced at home, and I ensure the breakfast isn't absolutely awful (and exists, so she's not starving by lunchtime), a lot of the calories come when I'm not there, and it's not like primary school where there was a set meal for the day and no extras.

I don't have any advice, I'm afraid, just sympathy and compassion! I hope you get some good advice here and find a way forward to help her.

Could she also have autism? Very likely if she has siblings with autism. It may explain the obsession with eating, using food to regulate etc? I wouldn’t run to the doctor just now though, you need to see if you can explore it more and test some other behaviour management first. Could there be genetic factors as to why your children struggle with weight?

What about exercise OP? Could you approach it from a health and fitness perspective rather than weight? The problem is if you hugely restrict her eating she will binge so you have to do it carefully. You're correct in that 12yo needs a balanced diet, which includes sugar in small quantities.

Could you and her sit together and find some recipes for some treats that are on the slightly healthier side, make them together and then portion them up and freeze them maybe?

I don't know if this is something you could speak to your GP about? Has she got things going on you don't know about? could she be comfort eating?

I sought help with DD2. The system couldn’t keep up. They came out to help me, but their solutions were worse than I’d already thought about. To give an example they suggested that DD2 drink low sugar drinks. None of my kids have EVER been allowed squash. They happily drink water. Low Cal squash contains (90% of the time) Aspartamine. Family history shows that my kids are susceptible to cancer (that’s a whole other thread so please don’t go there) and they’ve never been allowed to have a drink containing Aspartamine. That a health advisor would come in and suggest it really upset me. So my faith in the services is low! Sorry

Agreed! So how do I solve this?

You have literally created an eating disorder in your child .I think you need professional advice now

I’m not sure what the answer is with regards food - this is so tricky. But - does she do sport? I’d be getting her into sport….

Sorry, meant to say both ADHD and Autism have been diagnosed in her 3 siblings. So I need advice! I agree its not simple but equally I really need some help. The national health service is overwhelmed. Where do I turn next?

I am going to go against the calorie grain and say I don’t think it is actually helpful to a balanced diet. Everyone I know who is maintaining a healthy stable weight with a healthy relationship with food does not calorie count. There are plenty that do the above that are overweight too so don’t get me wrong in saying that’s the answer in itself.

The answer in my eyes is understanding your body type, your genetics and what diet actually computes well with your body. Thankfully my parents seemed to understand what diet worked well for them (may have been accidental) - which is a kind of full fat, high carb med diet. If I eat the diet I was raised on I never put on weight. No matter how much I eat - because there is a physical limit to the amount you can actually eat and I do naturally eat a lot of veg because I was taught how to prepare it so it tastes amazing. Salt, fat (butter) and acid (like lemons) are king there.

My cousin had a lot of trouble because her genetics seemed to be very different. It took her a long time to figure out she couldn’t eat any carbs and had to go on a protein and type veg diet. Her son also struggled with weight when younger but has also moved to this diet and been a lot better.

And when I say diet I don’t mean calorie counting or controlling food quantities. I mean diet as in the general arrangement of types of foods ie. for me it’s around 1/3rd carbs, 1/3rd veg, 1/6th protein, 1/6th fat (cheese, oils, nuts).

If you see yourself in your daughter then do you think you could maybe try to figure out what diet actually works for you OP and then you can help her in direction.

You could try the cracker amylase test. Just Google it and get yourself a biscuit of some kind - plain cracker and you time how long until it starts to taste sweeter or even with a rich tea biscuit and it turns to black currant flavour.

Goodluck

Have tried this! Tried with 1st child, 2nd, 3rd and 4th (the one I’m discussing here). This may work with other children and I really hoped taking the emphasis off food would work for all of them but I can assure you that out of 4 tries all have failed. 😢