Aibu to think myself and my child are being discriminated against by after school club?

[JudyLemon]

My child has Asd and has 1:1 assistance in school all day outside of the classroom. He has his 1:1 due to his behavioural issues, he cannot be in the classroom with the other children as he cannot sit or listen during a lesson and will be extremely disruptive. If he doesn't want to do something or if he doesn't like something he will run away and will threaten his own life. However he is not often physical, he will sometimes lash out at other children but never adults.

I am starting a new job soon and will be requiring childcare after school and in the holidays, I have contacted the schools onsite childcare provider and they have said that they cannot have him. They say they have spoken to the teacher and the teacher feels the environment is not suited to my child. This is because it is very busy and loud and because they cannot provide 1:1 support. I have reached out to them again and asked them what alternative options (perhaps shorter sessions or I could provide sensory toys) they will instead give me and they have said that they cannot accommodate my son at all.

Aibu to think this is discrimination? Am I expected to never work a good job again because of my child? Surely they have to put something in place?

Let me know if any of you have been in this same position and how you made it work please.

you Only get higher rate if they have significant night needs, they can need constant 1-1 throughout the day but if they sleep reasonably well you’ll only get middle rate care.

If you are struggling for after school care have you considered asking his (or another) teaching assistant from the school to walk DC home and keep him there and you pay them an hourly rate for this?

Or perhaps consider a career as a teaching assistant/school kitchen/school reception so that you are able to take him to school and take him home but also earn some income.

I couldn’t go back to work because my ASD son wouldn’t be a me to cope with after school club. Won’t he be distressed after an entire day at school anyway? My son is 9 and still can’t handle after school activities .

As PP said, it’s not discrimination.

Am I expected to never work a good job again because of my child? Surely they have to put something in place?

It’s after school hours.

Have you considered remote working? Obviously, it depends on your career, skill set ect but there are a lot more remote jobs available than pre pandemic.

www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs/home-based

Accept your lot in life, is the general attitude I am getting here. I just feel that this attitude would change so quickly should they themselves experience disability first hand.

You're wrong. I acquired a disability in my 20s and went from a completely 'normal life to one where I can barely walk. That means some things are not accessible to me anymore and it sucks, but in most cases it's nobody's fault and I accept that. I get annoyed when there IS a doable fix - like unnecessary stairs - but there isn't a doable fix here for the school.

The after school club isn't guilty of unlawful discrimination. Your child's disability is incompatible with the service they offer. There's no reasonable adaptation they can make to include your child because basically he would need a different room and a dedicated adult and that's totally opposite to the point of an after school club, which works on the principle that affordable childcare for a few hours can happen by having all the kids in a big room with a relatively small number of adults in case of emergency but structure is minimal and light-touch with the kids able to do their own thing. That's simply not the service that your child needs or can cope with and it's not discriminatory to acknowledge that.

I think the only option is a 1:1 after school nanny and you'll need a plan for your career to take your earnings high enough that you are better off after childcare costs - this is certainly possible once you are reasonably senior but you may need to get through a period of barely breaking even before you get there.

It's not statutory care provision but you could approach the local authority to provide the finances nd top up by other means so that you can find a specialist care provider who charges an enhanced rate. This is the issue that so many parents of children with additional needs face you want to work but can't get the childcare.

My DS2 is waiting to be assessed for ASD, he is in primary 3. DS1 and DS2 have always gone to the ASC (we live rurally and other than 1 local CM, this is the only childcare provision). I am a single parent and have always worked or been in FT education.

A few weeks ago the ASC told me they can no longer have DS2 for anymore than 1 hour effective immediately. I can understand their position, but I still feel a warning to allow me to structure my work day would have been far more helpful, especially given I have known them for 7 years. Anyway, I'm on sickness absence as this was the straw that broke the Camels back. And I have been offered a new job with less hours but much the same pay. I have to accept that my son cannot function in this environment and it is not good for anyone involved when he tried to and work around it.

I don't believe it falls under discrimination framework. But you could try and fight for some support hours during ASC.

You have a child with SEN, who has 1:1 support in classroom on EHCP. You may need to reach out (refer him) to children services for a Child in Need (CIN) plan if you need support for him out of school hours so you can go to work. There would be an expectation you will pay for general childcare and that his needs are what is over that (so for eg the 1:1 part )
ASC are unable to as they don't have access to 1:1 or specialist support and may not feel it's the right environment which is less structured and wider age range than usual classrooms are. You'd be better having a PA care for him whilst you work. He gets DLA?

Often parents with SEN children end up working shorter hours as it is very difficult to find appropriate childcare (for a child with behaviours that can present a challenge to manage in general child settings)

Do you know anyone thsts managed to get any reasonable amount of funding to enable them to work? I’m guessing it’s different in different local authorities and ours is pretty shocking on this type of thing so maybe my view is clouded. However I know you are only trying to be helpful but if it’s a zero possibility thst this is ever going to happen it’s not really fair to raise the ops expectations. Personally I always find it harder to take when my hopes have been raised about something and I’m turned down than if I’d never bothered in first place

"You may need to reach out (refer him) to children services for a Child in Need (CIN) plan if you need support for him out of school hours so you can go to work."

A CIN plan will not provide funding to enable someone to work. You may get a personal budget for respite care ( would generally be for a couple of hours a week if you get anything) and you can work during respite hours but section 17 provision does not provide for childcare.

Can the people who keep suggesting getting a social services assessment get respite to enable you to work please tell us where you live and all of us sen parents will move to this utopia.

quite! Our assessment consisted of a phonecall where they said there wasnt much they could offer. My friend qualified for respite. It is awarded for one afternoon a week and one day each holiday. But she has to bid for it when the sessions open up for booking the week before, so its not predictable and some weeks more people are bidding than places.

People want to believe there is lots of support out there for families with disabled children but in reality there is very little social care has to provide for children who are CIN through disability. They have no obligation to provide any respite provision for any individual child.

Indeed! So much wishful thinking or ‘suck it up’. I sincerely hope no one on this thread who thinks the OP should just quick her job and be poor ever has to experience the profound difficulties with parenting a child who has additional needs of some sort.

Is it discrimination? Yes.

Is it legal, probably.

Also the way you have described your child's difficulties would he survive the after school club?

He's probably trying his best in the school already, adding an hour to that might be too much.

So sorry I can't offer you any thing more than good thoughts.

Every LA is different and it's always called something different, but in an LA I used to live in I knew of parents who got childcare access funding for 4-14 year olds to access ASC's , childminders.

This link is from the local offer

www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/residents/children-and-families/childcare-and-early-learning/childcare-information/childcare-funding-for-children-with-additional-needs

Op I would be asking for a trial to see how he copes. I've worked with children who struggle in school due to SEN but actually manage well in ASC's because it is child led, less demands and expectations.

Surely being child led is actually more problematic - op’s son lashes out at other kids but not adults. With little adult supervision that sounds really dangerous for the other kids. Child who lashes out at other kids, plus can’t cope with the classroom which will be a fairly calm and regulated environment as it’s a year 6 class, plus a noisy all ages environment, plus little adult supervision? That just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

@Kanaloa not necessarily. Some kids are happy to sit at a computer for the whole time or build with Lego, or be outside with a ball. Being in the classroom with expectations to sit in a certain chair for a certain time, listen, then complete a task they don't want to do is very different to expectations in ASC. op's child has behavioural difficulties, but children do not always present the same in different environments which is why id want to test it out.

That’s so horrible for you but sadly I have to side with the school on this one. As others have said, it sounds as though he would be better off with a nanny/au pair anyway.

This thread is heartbreaking. Both the put up and shut up attitudes and the people who are completely unaware of their children's legal rights.

Assuming the ASC is run on school premises and is only available to children from that school then I believe this is discrimination and the school (not the ASC) should be providing 121 support for the child to attend. From upthread it's clear that it is possible to get EHCP funding to cover this.

This really shouldn't have to be such a battle for parents of disabled children. I will echo again what has already been said on this thread. This could affect anyone at any time. My previously healthy teenager is now disabled. It has been a real eye-opener.

It may well be better for the child to have a specialist nanny rather than use the ASC but if it's not affordable then it is not an option. I'm sure lots of children would be happier with a nanny rather than ASC, it doesn't make their parents wrong to use the ASC if that's what they can afford.

This is a C&P from advice I've seen elsewhere...

A child with a disability must enjoy the same opportunities as his/her peers. There is an anticipatory duty to make sure that arrangements are made and all are included. Schools cannot use lack of staff as a reason for not including a child...whilst the role is voluntary for staff, it is not voluntary for the school. Schools must find staff. It is also not acceptable to require a parent to attend.

From the Equality and Human Rights Commission:

What is covered?

1.14 It is unlawful for a school to discriminate against an applicant or
pupil in relation to:

• Access to any benefit, facility or service

3.3 A school’s obligation to pupils covers everything that a school provides for pupils and goes beyond just the formal education it provides. It covers all school activities such as extracurricular and leisure activities, afterschool and homework clubs, sports activities and school trips, as well as school facilities such as libraries and IT facilities.

Afterschool clubs, and extracurricular leisure and sporting
activities provided by the school
3.18 Where a school provides services or activities to its pupils that are not strictly educational and which may, in some circumstances, take place outside of the traditional school day, these are still covered by the school provisions of the Act. This would include afterschool activities, such as sporting clubs, and drama and musical productions. The range of activities offered and the way in which they are offered and delivered must not discriminate.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/technical_guidance_for_schools_england.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2kchKSvHa-53JCem1PRCUPBqSFYQGHWNO7thG1E7M-NsdpLkNPqAzUFzo

But can you ‘test out’ a child who lashes out at other children? His teacher (who presumably knows him very well) had said she doesn’t think he would cope. And it’s not really fair to basically make some poor kid the test out collateral damage for when a child they’ve been told by his own teacher won’t cope then lashes out. It would be really irresponsible of them.

And legal requirements of schools and school provisions isn’t really applicable. Most after school clubs are privately run businesses with minimum wage and probably unqualified staff, not school provision run by teachers. If this is an unusual ASC that is actually school provision that’s of course different, but it’s unlikely to be.