Aibu to think myself and my child are being discriminated against by after school club?

[JudyLemon]

My child has Asd and has 1:1 assistance in school all day outside of the classroom. He has his 1:1 due to his behavioural issues, he cannot be in the classroom with the other children as he cannot sit or listen during a lesson and will be extremely disruptive. If he doesn't want to do something or if he doesn't like something he will run away and will threaten his own life. However he is not often physical, he will sometimes lash out at other children but never adults.

I am starting a new job soon and will be requiring childcare after school and in the holidays, I have contacted the schools onsite childcare provider and they have said that they cannot have him. They say they have spoken to the teacher and the teacher feels the environment is not suited to my child. This is because it is very busy and loud and because they cannot provide 1:1 support. I have reached out to them again and asked them what alternative options (perhaps shorter sessions or I could provide sensory toys) they will instead give me and they have said that they cannot accommodate my son at all.

Aibu to think this is discrimination? Am I expected to never work a good job again because of my child? Surely they have to put something in place?

Let me know if any of you have been in this same position and how you made it work please.

HRC is only for children with significant night time needs, my daughter needs a 1:1 all day can’t be left alone at all has asd and still has a 1:1 all day in school at 11 and can be aggressive no danger awareness runs off runs in road, she only gets MRC Because it covers some night time needs, HRC is only if they have significant night time needs.

I stopped working because DS found the sensory stimulation of the small, over-crowded multi-age ASC overwhelming. He's "high functioning" and generally functions/ masks in school although we frequently have the "fizzy bottle" release. 6 hours is enough for him then he needs to be quietly at home and zone out for two hours before he has the capacity for anything else. DH's income is good enough for us to live on, and my income wouldn't be viable for covering personal childcare in the home, so until he can cope without childcare, my career has stalled.

This is the reality of life with SNs, and we're in a better position than most.

The fighting for scraps of everything is tough. DS hasn't failed enough to get an EHCP- the system revolves around making people fail before they can get anything. There are many fights out there, and regrettably after school provision in an unsuitable environment and access to childcare to facilitate work is a pretty huge one and likely to fail.

Is he being considered for a specialist school? It doesn’t seem sustainable if he isn’t accessing the classroom at all. Sometimes specialist schools will have after school clubs. However, it sounds like he’s pretty stressed already more time at school may not be what’s best for him.

My ASD DS in was kicked out of ASC in primary school due to disruptive behaviour! He was undiagnosed then though. The staff were not school staff there, they worked for the childcare provider who used the school premises, so up to them not the school. Is your ASC similar? There was a clause in the contract about behaviour.

Contacting SC as a previous poster might be an idea but it’ll probably take many months for an assessment and they won’t care that you want to go back to work. They’ll only offer support if your DC needs it not you unfortunately and that will have to be fought for.

Have you thought about what to go when your DC starts secondary school? There’ll be no childcare after school and you’ll probably have to trawl the streets for hours after school to find him if he’s anything like my DS. School (1200+ pupils) refused to help by getting someone to walk him to Reception so I could collect him there. He’d just walk (or run) out of school, not answer his phone, and get into all kinds of mischief. Still shudder when I think of that time!

Sorry OP, I’d advise finding a school hours job, preferably from home so you are there for school holidays and can nip to school for appointments, video meetings with LA, etc. They are out there, I have one, finally!

Claim carers and DLA, tax credit and housing benefit disability top up too.

People please! You can not only be discriminated against something which has to legally be provided!

If you couldn't stay at hotel because of your sexuality - discrimination

If you couldn't go to church because you have Tourette's and shout during the service - discrimination

If you couldn't get on a train because you use a wheelchair and there is no ramp - discrimination.

Just because a school doesn't have to provide ASC doesn't mean it cant be discrimination, when someone is denied access to that service because they are disabled.

It may however not be discrimination under the equality act if no reasonable adjustments could be made to accommodate the child. This reasonable adjustment clause will protect the ASC and enables them to turn away disabled children. They are probably not therefore being "legally" discriminating as everyone points out it is not reasonable for them to fund a 1:1. However it is reasonable to expect the council to fund the additional support required. Yes it is expensive - but I promise you not as expensive as pushing parents of disabled kids out of work! Think of the economics, they will then claim benefits and pay no tax, potentially for the rest of their lives, as if you push them out of work for 18 years, until their child is eligible for full support as a disabled adult, they will most likely struggle to re enter employment at that point.

If parents or disabled children want to work, and feel that their child would cope in a childcare setting with the right support - this should be an option for them. Just like it is for everyone else.

It doesn't sound like it is suitable though @Aliceruns.

And given how hard it is to even get a council to cough up and provide what's in the EHCP, how do you propose anyone gets the council to provide additional staff to provide 1:1? Legal action?

Of course the school aren't discriminating..... They are providing an education but they aren't obliged to provide the wrap around care!!!! Sort it out yourself!!!!!

It is extremely difficult to find childcare if you have a child with additional needs. I had to give up work, my son attends a special school and the majority of families with children there have to do the same.
My son attends a special needs group once a week for 3 hours through the council.

It's a lovely idea that councils could fund 1-1 support for after-school and holidays but I think the poster is living in an alternate reality!!! Pigs will fly first.

@Clymene sadly yes, or at least the threat of legal action. I know someone who has recently managed to get 1:1 support for after school club written into the EHCP and funded by the council. She did threaten tribunal although I think that was for something else but they backed down and agreed before it went anywhere.
Her handle on instagram is alfieandlesley and she has a whole highlighted section on EHCP and what she said and did to get what her son needs.

I agree, this thread is full of ableism. And a shocking lack of compassion from some.

Leaving aside the suitability of this after school club for this child, reading the responses here I’m getting this sexist message that a mother of a child with Sen should give up any hope of a career, like how dare she hope to find childcare to be able to work or have a break! Doesn’t she care enough about her child to give up her career for them? That’s the message and it’s so regressive.

Then there’s the kind of comment that ‘your disabled child is your problem, it’s up to you to deal with on your own’. Well lucky you, all of you who don’t care for someone vulnerable and don’t ever need a greater level of support than others. Those who are vulnerable can and should be helped by everyone.

One point I’d like to make is that society needs mothers of children with send in decision making professional roles. Their voices and experiences should be valued and could help shape a fairer society. They shouldn’t just be expected to give up and stay at home coping alone with an impossible situation.

I'm impressed she has the energy.

Fighting for assessment, fighting for an ehcp, fighting for DLA. I'm done to be honest. I really haven't got it in me to keep on. I admire the people who do.

But they don’t just need an adjustment, do they? The service provided is a busy (probably one room) after school care where it will be noisy and busy and there will probably be few staff to watch and feed several kids. OP needs one to one extensive care in a quiet environment for a child with significant extra needs. She isn’t asking them to make a reasonable adjustment so her child can be catered to - she needs a whole different service than the one they provide and they’re not able to do it. The same as they wouldn’t be able to take a newborn baby in after school club, or an adult with extra needs, or a child with profound disabilities who needs round the clock medical care. Not because they’re discriminating, but because it isn’t part of the service they offer.

And it’s fine to say ‘oh if the parent wants their child in childcare and they’d cope then that should be an option’ but this boy doesn’t cope with the childcare this business offers. He needs one to one constant support in a solitary environment. That’s not what a private ASC is. People aren’t suggesting reasonable adjustments here, they’re suggesting this club either cares for him unsafely (for him and others) or starts providing a totally new and more expensive service (one to one care in a private space) that they don’t have training or funding for.

So your example of someone with Tourette’s not being welcome in church doesn’t really work - it’s more like if someone with Tourette’s requested a private mass after normal church and the priest said no that’s not possible/available. Difficult but unfortunately private after school clubs don’t really cater to older kids with extensive extra needs who need constant 1-1 and a quiet environment. They squash as many kids as possible in a big room, often with unqualified minimum wage staff, and basically just try to give them a snack and keep them busy till home time. That’s the reality of what ASC is.

@Clymene I do totally 100% understand this. I often feel the same. And reading all the comments on this thread makes me wonder why I even bother fighting, when most people really do seem to think that disabled people and their families should not be afforded the same opportunities as everyone else. Accept your lot in life, is the general attitude I am getting here. I just feel that this attitude would change so quickly should they themselves experience disability first hand.

Iv had it since my daughter was a tiny baby and asked to leave water babies because she couldn't "keep up" (she has cerebral palsy & vision impairment) to just last year when she couldn't meet Father Christmas because they "forgot" the ramp. Causal discrimination / ableism is just so accepted and mainstream people can't even see it for what it is. Or they just really don't care.

Accessing childcare is a big one though so I have always fought as hard as I can there.

I hope one day there is some kind of revolt like we have seen for other marginalised and discriminated groups. I fear I'll die waiting though.

Our after school club consists of one very large room. Having 1-1 care wouldn’t work in that environment, as it would be very noisy, and no options to provide your dc with a calm place. I suspect most clubs are like this as they don’t keep different age groups separately. Sometimes not everything can be ‘fixed’ I’m afraid, and this falls into that category.

Appreciate your view @Kanaloa and you may be right that this setting even with additional funding could never be suitable.

I guess my point is more that affordable childcare options should be available to all to enable families to work. Not only because that is what an equal society looks like, but also because it makes sound economic sense.

My daughter for example is physically disabled, no behavioural needs, enjoys company of other children and they enjoy hers. Yet, without additional funding for extra support to help her move around, go to toilet etc, she will not be able to access ASC, or any other childcare setting. It can't be said it's a wholly unsuitable setting for her, she just needs a some extra support to enable her to access exactly the same as what every other child can and I feel that it is a government responsibility to provide this, where it means the parent can work. Similar to how it funds 30 hours childcare so parents can work, the cost / benefit analysis of funding this for preschoolers pays off, and it would for disabled children too.

It’s shit . It’s not discrimination though. Discrimination is wilfully excluding someone because their disability is inconvenient. In this case it’s not workable or ethical. I say this as someone who’s child became too much after being a manageable baby and was fine and happy in childcare and I enjoyed the freedom to work and study until he was about 3 . He’s currently being assessed though because he just doesn’t cope. He’s clearly got ASD of some kind . He’s very high functioning and bright but also will lose his shit when things are out of his control and don’t make sense to him. He has 1:1 in the school day and is doing very well. I’m so grateful for it . Complicated by the fact he’s the size of an 8 year old . I would never expect an ASC to meet his needs . It’s not what they are there for , when and if I need to extend my working hours I’ll employ a specialist nanny . They’re expensive but you can usually get much of that cost covered and know they are clued up and trained and focused on what your child needs. Please check what you’re entitled to , who’s available in your area. You might find that this type of nanny not only allows you to work and have time off but also their specialism benefits your child . I hope you get it sorted , don’t give up. You may find that the right person can help you in lots of ways .
I looked into it when we were struggling to find a school to take him and was surprised by the help available but just as we were about to decide he was finally given a school place and I’m lucky enough to squeeze my work into the school day and a bit at night . But I did find there are some fabulous people out there , people who could help you after school and so long as they’re registered with Ofsted or NNEB or similar you can’t claim most of the cost back. Good luck 🤞

Yes I agree. I of course wish there was actual suitable settings my son could attend for after school care. I could work more days and (ironically) could then probably afford things to help him even more! But I just think op is leveling her anger at the wrong place - this particular setting is not discriminating against her. They’re just honestly telling her they’re not the right service provider for her needs. I aim my anger more at the fact that there isn’t a service (at least most places) for affordable childcare for all children. I have had it suggested online that I look at a private special needs nanny so when I start pooping £100 notes I suppose that’s an option.

Sorry that was in response to @Aliceruns

@Aliceruns reading all the comments on this thread makes me wonder why I even bother fighting, when most people really do seem to think that disabled people and their families should not be afforded the same opportunities as everyone else. Accept your lot in life, is the general attitude I am getting here. I just feel that this attitude would change so quickly should they themselves experience disability first hand

I disagree with you - despite having some first hand experience as a disabled, working single parent of children with SEND.

Many posters (including me) strongly believe that there needs to be more support for families like the OP. However, the after-school club is not the one in the wrong here, it is not discrimination that they don't have the funds available to put right the wrongs of council and government funding, without putting other children at risk.

Do you get Carers's? This is why I claim because I can't work out side of school hours so between my wage, carers and dla it gives me approx 25 hrs of min pay wage when I only do 8. It's not a perfect system but I'm grateful for it.

There should certainly be better provision and funding for children with special needs to be in childcare so the parents can work.

However, it is not discriminatory to refuse a child a place in a childcare environment that is not suitable for them and where reasonable adjustments would clearly not cover his needs. An after school club isn’t school, it’s private childcare. It’s no different from a childminder saying she couldn’t take your son because her home environment or the level of care she can reasonably provide wouldn’t be enough for him.

I sympathise with your situation but I also think you might be a little bit in denial about the extent to which your son can manage in everyday environments. He is different from a lot of his classmates, and he has different needs, and that is perfectly OK. He will not always thrive in the same environments as his classmates, because he is not like them. He’s every bit as important as them and every bit as wonderful, but he is not the same and he won’t always benefit from doing the same things. I understand that you don’t want him to be treated differently, but you need to recognise that there are times when he needs to be treated differently for his own welfare and happiness.

In our area the criteria for respite care is specifically that it is not child care to enable you to work and if that’s why you need it you will be turned down. Also the most people tend to get is an hour or two a week so it’s going to make very little diff to being able to work anyway even if you get

How is there plenty of time when he gets older? There are even less places that are an option then as he gets older.