I was really rude and possibly discriminatory to my boss. What should I do?

[Iottie]

NC.

I was in our Monday team zoom meeting. We somehow got onto the Roe v Wade ruling.

My boss is extremely right wing. He was saying how he supported the ruling, it should have never been made in the first place, life begins at conception, bla bla bla etc.

I am the only woman on the team and I was getting more and more irate. I blurted out something I probably shouldn’t have. I can’t remember exactly but it was something along the lines of:

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

There was a really awkward silence before we moved onto another topic.

Right, so I could have been more polite and nuanced in my point, but now I am terrified I discriminated against him by referencing his sexuality.

I know I really shouldn’t have mentioned it - I could have said the same thing without bringing it up but I just got more and more wound up by a bunch of men agreeing with each other instigated by him.

As I mentioned my boss is really right wing so I don’t think he’d report me for being discriminatory as he calls diversity and inclusion bollocks anyway. But if he does I know I could be in big trouble.

What do I do? I don’t know if I should message him apologising but that might just bring more attention to it…?

And you know gay men make all sorts of different life style decisions and live different sorts of lives.

The assumptions here that all gay men are, or should be, left wing, and never sleep with women, it's as if your only experience of gay is from an episode of Modern Family and you think it's fine to extrapolate and discriminate from that.

Very liberal.

For your statement to make sense and be justifiable, you'd have to start from the point that he was a) gay b) only gay and not bisexual/having sex with women ever and c) everyone on the call knew both of these things.

You don't know who is 'gay' as in never has sex with women. Laud Humphries' Tea Room Trade is very dated, but shows there are a lot of people who don't define themselves one way or another but have sex with men and women.

I know at least two 'gay' men who have gone on to settle down with women and have families (as in if you met them at a different time in their lives they would have had boyfriends and appeared openly gay), at least three women with children and husbands who have settled in lesbian relationships and all manner of other combinations, and at least one women who tried for IVF with a female partner who then married a man and had children that way.

I don't think any men should have a say over women's bodies and their sexuality is not the main thing to remark on here.

Well as a gay man it does effect him less than if he was hetero. There must be lots of men in the US who are also very concerned about this ruling. There will be many many men who have been very glad their partners were able to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, Men that did not want to father a child.

@Headabovetheparakeet I think there is a big difference between openly sharing your opinion on an issue that oppresses and harms women, depending on whether you are pro or anti.

If he were anti RvW then he would be supporting women’s rights, but his pro viewpoint supports the diminishing of women’s rights. Therefore it is a much more controversial opinion to be spouting around the workplace.

He may be entitled to his own opinion, but he should be wary of forcing it on more junior colleagues like this. Entirely wrong.

He will never know how it feels to be pregnant and how horrific it would be to be forced to go through with it unwillingly.

FYI, I'm a lesbian. As a woman who's never had to deal with issues of contraception and pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, and as a woman who's never wanted to have children, I don't pretend to understand all the issues surrounding abortion and the lack of it. But I can imagine the possibility of being raped and ending up pregnant, and so it's an issue I do have an interest in. But I'd never give my opinion the same weight as that of straight women who are directly affected every day of their fertile lives. And I'd never complain of discrimination if a straight women told me to butt out because it wasn't my issue.

*pronor anti overturning it I mean

Men having any say in any situation over women's reproductive choices is very wrong IMO, and very upsetting for many women.

Who brought this up?

I certainly wouldn't be apologising for your views.

Not a conversation for the office, especially one where you are the only woman.

A recipe for upset.

@Merryclaire

I think you've made my point. It's not that he shared a personal opinion, it's that he shared one you don't agree with.

In my company, there is always a 'correct' opinion about everything. I mostly agree with it but on the odd occasion I don't (e.g. insisting that everyone include personal pro-nouns in email), it makes me realise how suffocating and alienating an environment it is.

The fact that Op wasn't able to calmly say she disagrees without mentioning the guy's sexuality shows how little she's able to deal with someone disagreeing with her.

No I haven’t made your point because there is a difference between sharing an oppressive opinion vs a supportive outlook.

I can’t imagine anyone would think his opinion was ok to share if it was racist, for example, so not all opinions are fair game to share at work.

I don't think you said anything discriminatory. Maybe if the conversation was about abortion in general, but it was specifically about Roe v Wade.

Roe is not abstract. It is about state sponsored forced labor (mostly) in the American deep south. It has everything to do with gender and race oppression and nothing to do with protecting life. Pointing out to a male in a same sex relationship the extreme gender inequality that will result from banning an American woman's access to abortion is not discrimination. Just like pointing out racism to a white person isn't racist.

...and?

Well done, OP 👏

Dont you dare apologise. HE should be apologising.

I find insisting people use personal pronouns in their emails oppressive and inappropriate but it's happening in plenty of workplaces.

As for racism, I know someone who was ostracised for 'racism' for saying they don't buy Israeli products. Their grandparents were from Palestine.

Maybe people have different perspectives. You don't have to agree and it's ok to be offended but if we're banning opinions from the workplace then let's just be consistent about it.

what sort of ridiculous place do you work at with a very right winged gay man who spouts his opinions to all to agree with

OP you have nothing to apologise for.

Men need to fuck off with their opinions on Women's bodies.

He created a hostile work environment for you, the only person there with the protected characteristic of sex, the only person there who could ever need an abortion / may for all he knew have had an abortion in the past.

You just pointed out (admittedly more heatedly than appropriate) that the ruling had no possibility of affecting him. As you said above, his sexuality is relevant to that, since he wouldn't ever be in the position that it was his child.

He's the one who should be worried if HR get involved, not you.

Do not apologise to him, he is a twat. Speak to Hr and tell them what happened then get on with your life .

I find insisting people use personal pronouns in their emails oppressive and inappropriate but it's happening in plenty of workplaces.

It is unusual to force employees to do that. I work at a very forward thinking, ‘right on’ company, and even they don’t do that.

However, while it might be an irritation, it doesn’t destroy lives so I don’t see that it’s a comparable issue.

FYI, I'm a lesbian. As a woman who's never had to deal with issues of contraception and pregnancy as a result of consensual sex, and as a woman who's never wanted to have children, I don't pretend to understand all the issues surrounding abortion and the lack of it. But I can imagine the possibility of being raped and ending up pregnant, and so it's an issue I do have an interest in. But I'd never give my opinion the same weight as that of straight women who are directly affected every day of their fertile lives. And I'd never complain of discrimination if a straight women told me to butt out because it wasn't my issue.

Do you really mean to say that if you expressed the view that abortion was morally wrong and someone told you 'you're gay so stay out of it' that you would have no problem with that?

I am a straight woman who doesn't plan on having children, don't even know if my uterus is conducive to child-bearing, but I 100% feel like abortion is my issue, it's a woman's issue! An attack against women is an attack against me, I hate the idea of anybody telling me that I can't have control a choice about my own body, even if that choice may only ever be hypothetical to me.

I think that many are missing the bigger issue surrounding the loss of these rights, it's abortion now but the door is open to limit access to contraception and IVF treatment as well.

In some states there are plans to ban IUDs and the Morning After pill. Wake up.

Do you think they don't exist? They definitely do.

@Merryclaire

Well they're also too right on to force us but we get plenty of 'reminders'.

He created a hostile work environment for you, the only person there with the protected characteristic of sex, the only person there who could ever need an abortion / may for all he knew have had an abortion in the past.

Everyone has the protected characteristic of sex otherwise the protected characteristic in the EA 2010 would be women/female.

Whether they are Gay, straight, Bi, whatever it doesn’t matter - men do not have a right to an opinion on women’s bodies. Ever.

no uterus, no opinion.

it really is that simple

not sure why on here some are trying to over complicate it and make excuses for men to have such opinions

oh well,
let us know if there is any come back op

In some states there are plans to ban IUDs and the Morning After pill. Wake up.

It’s terrifying.

Never mind the fact it costs $1,000s to have a baby over there and there isn’t a requirement for maternity pay.

I am pregnant and I can feel my baby moving around right now, which is wonderful. But if I didn’t want to be pregnant I can only imagine how horrific it would feel, to be forced to go through it without my consent or any financial support.