I was really rude and possibly discriminatory to my boss. What should I do?

[Iottie]

NC.

I was in our Monday team zoom meeting. We somehow got onto the Roe v Wade ruling.

My boss is extremely right wing. He was saying how he supported the ruling, it should have never been made in the first place, life begins at conception, bla bla bla etc.

I am the only woman on the team and I was getting more and more irate. I blurted out something I probably shouldn’t have. I can’t remember exactly but it was something along the lines of:

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

There was a really awkward silence before we moved onto another topic.

Right, so I could have been more polite and nuanced in my point, but now I am terrified I discriminated against him by referencing his sexuality.

I know I really shouldn’t have mentioned it - I could have said the same thing without bringing it up but I just got more and more wound up by a bunch of men agreeing with each other instigated by him.

As I mentioned my boss is really right wing so I don’t think he’d report me for being discriminatory as he calls diversity and inclusion bollocks anyway. But if he does I know I could be in big trouble.

What do I do? I don’t know if I should message him apologising but that might just bring more attention to it…?

They absolutely can and do become fathers, but I do think it is much less likely that they will be personally / intimately affected by abortion laws.

But again, 'much less likely' doesn't make what the OP said any less discriminatory.

As an aside I work in a fairly robust male dominated organisation. I’ve had plenty of “old school” bosses who engaged in quite heated rows with colleagues ( the swearing and finger pointing variety) who wake up the next day and move on with things. Blokes can be very direct in their communication and don’t necessarily dwell on the minutiae of every communication. I don’t know the guy but if I otherwise got on well with him I’d raise it with him next time I was alone with him. ( not to apologise but to say “I’m never going to agree with you on this issue)

All you did was show how weak your position is if you had to resort to becoming personal.

You mean OP couldn’t be coolly objective because it could, or maybe has affected her, so she became emotional. whereas he could be objective because it’s hypothetical in his case.

It sounds like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to me. No need to apologise.

What if a surrogate gets pregnant and the child has a severe medical condition discovered in the womb? She wants to terminate but he does not?

I wouldn’t be apologising in your position op.

I do however, think you are wrong. His opinion on women’s bodies is invalid because he is male, his sexuality is irrelevant.

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

I can't see anything inaccurate in your comments. As a gay man he will neither get pregnant or get someone pregnant by accident so the ruling will not impact him. The ruling will impact millions of women. Lack of funds to travel means it will affect poor and vulnerable women more. You hold the opinion that men should not have a say over women's bodily autonomy, it's a view shared by many women.

You have referenced his sexuality and sex in two different contexts, one a statement of fact (sexuality) and the other an opinion (sex).

I would not apologise. If he didn't want pushback then he should not have raised it. If you had made the comments without him starting the conversation it would be different. He did not feel the need to demonstrate any sensitivity to you, the only woman in attendance.

I wouldn’t apologize for that. Even in a workplace where political discussions are on the table, he was out of line.

abortion is an issue with a hierarchy of opinion and his voice belongs at the bottom. It’s no different than the fact that as a white, heterosexual woman, on issues of gay or minority rights I can have an opinion and be an advocate, but I also need to listen more than I speak.

@HeadOnShoulders

“Usually the arguments for abortion are that the fetus is just part of the woman and isn't yet considered a human being, and as such it's her choice. And the argument against is that a fetus is a human being, albeit in early stages of development, and therefore shouldn't be killed.

Neither side has a knockout argument.”

how is the former not a knockout argument.

a foetus is a foetus. It’s not a human being. The woman can do what she wants to this cluster of cells that are in her body. Cos it’s her body. And she can do what she wants with her body. It really is that simple. No one can argue against that no matter how much you hate women no one has a leg to stand on against that.

I can't see anything inaccurate in your comments. As a gay man he will neither get pregnant or get someone pregnant by accident so the ruling will not impact him.

Christ the ignorance is never going to go away on this thread while women assume the only reason for abortion is because the woman got pregnant by accident 🙄

You didn't discriminate - you called a gay man gay. That's not discrimination. He won't report you as he antagonised the situation and if he does report it (he won't) you can make a statement of your own and HR will have to sort. No discrimination occurred from either of you, just two opposing opinions

I think it does though. The way OP phrased it was unfortunate- “absolutely no bearing” wasn’t strictly accurate. But it was in the heat of the moment/ provoked, and Given it would be a highly exceptional circumstance for a gay man to be intimately/ personally affected, I think it was reasonable .

Christ the ignorance is never going to go away on this thread while women assume the only reason for abortion is because the woman got pregnant by accident 🙄

Context is everything. I presume gay men don't randomly have unprotected sex with women, unless I have misunderstood what it means to a homosexual male, and I did not want to exclude the possibility that a gay man MIGHT consider that having sex with a woman could be the most straight forward way for him to have children. So a child between a gay man and a woman may well have been planned but an accidental pregnancy is highly unlikely.

I'm fully aware of the many reason why a woman may need or want to terminate a pregnancy so your concern for my ignorance is unwarranted.

what you said was discriminatory imo - gay men are entitled to an opinion about abortion same as anyone else. It’s not just an issue of womens’ bodies either. It’s a moral and ethical issue.

Im pro choice (female) and believe women should be able to choose to abort up till birth. However, I don’t deny anyone the right to an opinion on this or anything else on the grounds of their sexuality or sex.

It doesn’t sound like he’s the type to do anything but I would tread carefully and not disparage or discount others views on the basis of protected characteristics.

There's a lot of ignorance on this thread about gay parents and I don't think the concern is unwarranted at all.

Just the opposite sadly.

I don't think his sexuality is relevant, only his sex. He can never be pregnant so it's not his decision, but that's the same as any man. It can still be upsetting to lose a potential sibling or niece or nephew to abortion, doesn't have to be a son or daughter (I support a woman's right to choose, it's not a decision for family to make, but it can still affect family).

I'd say well done for standing up to such bullshit. I'd be surprised if anything came of it so I wouldn't worry. If it were my company promote you 🙂

You shouldn't have brought his sexuality into it as it's irrelevant anyway.

I keep seeing this. It's nonsense. As a gay man he never has to face the risk of getting his partner pregnant, which is something many straight men do have to consider and face the consequences of. The fact that he's gay is relevant. He doesn't even have to think about contraception, let alone pregnancy. He's holding a strong ideological opinion about something he has absolutely no experience of. Good for you, OP. Have some

Don't say anything but be prepared to hand in your notice if it does go further

I don't agree with people saying he was wrong to share his opinion. I'm sure plenty of people have discussed their dismay at the ruling during work meetings today and aren't having HR complaints made about them. What you're really saying is that people shouldn't share opinions you don't agree with at work.

He does sound awful but I guess this will be the test to see if he'll stick by his values and not report or reprimand you for saying what you think.

I would say he was wrong as the most senior person on the call to be strongly pushing his opinion forward, when there is only one woman on the call who clearly felt ganged up on by a load of men discussing women’s rights.

Entirely inappropriate for a work meeting. Probably ok down the pub - but would still be an unpopular opinion to hold in the UK.

Oh do read the thread and get yourself into this century.

You know, the century where gay man father children too and not even by 'accident' 🙄

I would not apologise. It was a sensitive topic and for all he knows it could have affected you directly. As a manager I think it was inappropriate for him to raise it at a work meeting. When you meet him this afternoon I would act as though the conversation had never taken place.

I think your opinion is wrong, but you had a right to hold it and say it in the context you describe.

I think everyone has a right to an opinion on abortion, even gay men. I think everyone has a right to vote and campaign in ways which support their opinion. I think society has to have a way to resolve ethical dilemmas in a way in which every one can live with and I think that democracy is the only way to do that.

I think everyone has a right to an opinion, to campaign, and to vote on anything.

I think women's experiences should be central to the debate which takes place and I think no man should influence an individual women making her own choices within the law.

But I think this idea that only some people are allowed views on some issues is just incorrect in law and not healthy for society as a concept.

@Merryclaire

I don't agree with what he said but a number of posters have said that it shouldn't have been discussed at work. I don't think they would be saying that if he had shared an opinion they agreed with.

I work somewhere 'political' and a lot of people with right of centre views feel there is a double standard around this.