I was really rude and possibly discriminatory to my boss. What should I do?

[Iottie]

NC.

I was in our Monday team zoom meeting. We somehow got onto the Roe v Wade ruling.

My boss is extremely right wing. He was saying how he supported the ruling, it should have never been made in the first place, life begins at conception, bla bla bla etc.

I am the only woman on the team and I was getting more and more irate. I blurted out something I probably shouldn’t have. I can’t remember exactly but it was something along the lines of:

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

There was a really awkward silence before we moved onto another topic.

Right, so I could have been more polite and nuanced in my point, but now I am terrified I discriminated against him by referencing his sexuality.

I know I really shouldn’t have mentioned it - I could have said the same thing without bringing it up but I just got more and more wound up by a bunch of men agreeing with each other instigated by him.

As I mentioned my boss is really right wing so I don’t think he’d report me for being discriminatory as he calls diversity and inclusion bollocks anyway. But if he does I know I could be in big trouble.

What do I do? I don’t know if I should message him apologising but that might just bring more attention to it…?

Do you think we should ask women how often they have sex with a man before we decide whether or not their opinion on abortion matters?

How many years of celibacy would discount a woman from having an equally valid opinion?

What about heterosexual women who only like anal sex?

Or whose monogamous partner has been sterilised?

See how ridiculous it is?

It doesn't matter that you are a lesbian. You're a woman. You might need an abortion one day. You have a stake in this that no man has, regardless of his sexuality.

Men can have children insofar as they contribute sperm and can, once the child is born, nurture and care for it. But men can't conceive, bear or give birth to a child and they don't suffer the physical and emotional and financial damage that women do as a result of childbearing. Nor do they bear the brunt of society's expectation that they will stick around and parent their children faithfully for 18 years+.

You're absolutely right. This is painfully obvious and has been said repeatedly throughout the thread.

And this is all men, so the OP had no need to bring up the fact that he's gay.

This also applies to men of all colours, religion, class etc and she would have no right to bring that up either.

The fact she brought his sexuality into it to try to close him down, was discriminatory and completely unnecessary.

@1000Pieces - his gender and sexuality are relevant to his opinions about Roe v Wade because as a man in a same sex relationship he is very far removed from the class of people being oppressed in America as a result of Roe being overturned. OP was not wrong to pull him up on this.

Your responses are very abstract and abstract arguments are very dangerous in the context of Roe. Roe is not abstract. Roe is not gender or race neutral. Overturning Roe = a state regime that criminalises abortion and potentially miscarriages. Women across America will suffer as a result, and a disproportionate amount of those women will be poor and/or poc.

It was arguably discriminatory (although many would argue not) but OP is aware of that and feels worried there will be consequences.

However, while she shouldn’t have brought him being gay into it, his behaviour was so much worse, and he drove her to lose her cool.

So I think she should learn from it and move on, as if her boss complained he would likely get into more trouble than her for his attitude.

I think we’ve all said something we shouldn’t in the heat of the moment. But his behaviour was clearly just his knobbish general attitude.

it was not really a works meeting though surely?

not relevant in UK.

Of course him being a gay man giving opinion on women’s bodies is relevant. His opinion coming from a gay man is from a point of view of commodification of women’s bodies for childbirth. There’s absolutely no way you should apologise and if it comes to it, you need to be taking a lot of offence from what he has said to you - that women’s rights should be taken away from them. Do not back down on this, you have done nothing wrong. The fact he caused such a strong reaction in you shows that.

it wasnt a works related matter, it was simply opinions.
he gave his
you reacted.

surely?

Sounds like a works meeting. She did say she works in politics and they often discuss political issues. Sounds like he just said something she disagreed with. If you're going to discuss political issues then you can't shut down people simply because they voice a different opinion.

This can’t be serious? I was clearly quoting uou back at you. You’re on here telling everyone gay men can’t have an opinion or a say as they aren’t going to have a baby, and I’m pointing out that unless you’re a fertile American woman by the same logic neither does anyone else,

and that’s why silencing is dangerous, because if you apply your logic to one deomographic you need to apply it to every demographic it applies to.

fair point @BigFatLiar

you must have come to blows in the past if there are no taboo subjects?

by this logic then only fertile American women have a say. Are you one? As if not you get no say either

I am not commenting on the US case - I am commenting on men thinking they get a say on abortion anywhere. They do not.

I am not commenting on the US case - I am commenting on men thinking they get a say on abortion anywhere. They do not.

But at a national level they do, don't they? Just like I get a say in lots of issues that don't affect me directly because I get to vote on governments and they make laws.

This 'men don't get a say' line is silly and unhelpful.

But I don't think the OP was trying to say her boss shouldn't have an opinion or not be able to vote. She was just pointing out that his opinion in this specific context is loaded with privilege and hypocrisy. And that stems from the fact that he is a man and also from the fact he is in a same sex relationship.

His gender is absolutely meaningless.

His SEX matters.

This is just outright homophobia.

I am absolutely opposed to commercial surrogacy, to the destruction of sex-based rights, etc. But this (His opinion coming from a gay man is from a point of view of commodification of women’s bodies for childbirth) is straightforward, out-and-out homophobia. And it's not OK.

Of course they do, if I was to consider abortion I’d absolutely wish my husbands input into that decision, of course it’s ultimately my call but as the father he has a say and I’d wish him to have input.

really this is so juvenile and school girlish. People are entitled to have opinions, even when it doesn’t directly impact them. That’s often how political decisions are made, the weight of public opinion.

men are not some strange alien species. They have wives, sisters, mothers, daughters, female friends, aunts, grandmothers, nieces. Women they love and who love them, who they wish the best for. Of course they have a say.

just as if something contentious happened impacting mens health I’d want a say.. Because I have a father, a brother, a nephew, a husband, a brother in law, an uncle, a son, and male friends, who I love and care for. Of course I should have a say. Just like men should have say for us, because many of us are loved by men who care for us deeply and wish to support us.

I wasn't responding to the Op, I was responding to the pp who said men don't have a say. That may be what she wants but it isn't the case - laws are made with the consent of the public, not just of the people most affected by them.

What does this even mean - you "want him to have a say"?

What does that look like in practice, if you want to abort the pregnancy and he wants it to continue? Or vice versa?

This isn't abstract. What do you actually want to see happen when you say that men "should have a say" in abortion?

I don't think what you said about his sexuality was discrimination its true he's not really going to give birth. I think it's more offensive the trouble is.... with any Controversial topic things get heated and everyone is eager to argue their point!

Just keep out of each others way!

Of course they do, if I was to consider abortion I’d absolutely wish my husbands input into that decision, of course it’s ultimately my call but as the father he has a say and I’d wish him to have input.

Yes, on an individual level a man can have an opinion on whether or not he wants his wife/partner/gf/ex etc to snort his child.

But this is a question of legality, on whether or not a woman should be allowed an abortion, for ANY reason. And that, IMO, isn't really something that men should have control over. And I therefore am not interested in their opinion. It is a question of bodily autonomy, and thus a position that a man would NEVER find himself in

I don't think what you said about his sexuality was discrimination its true he's not really going to give birth.

You do realise that men cannot give birth, regardless of their sexuality

His sexuality is relevant. As a gay man he can neither get pregnant nor impregnate somebody. You'll be fine. Just ignore and move on.

I'd have said both unreasonable if it you hadn't mentioned it is relevant to your work. In this case I'd say you both put an opinion forward, and it'll likely just blow over.

I didn't realise gay men were all infertile.

Or that being able to impregnate someone means that you gain control over their body.

The ignorance would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.