I was really rude and possibly discriminatory to my boss. What should I do?

[Iottie]

NC.

I was in our Monday team zoom meeting. We somehow got onto the Roe v Wade ruling.

My boss is extremely right wing. He was saying how he supported the ruling, it should have never been made in the first place, life begins at conception, bla bla bla etc.

I am the only woman on the team and I was getting more and more irate. I blurted out something I probably shouldn’t have. I can’t remember exactly but it was something along the lines of:

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

There was a really awkward silence before we moved onto another topic.

Right, so I could have been more polite and nuanced in my point, but now I am terrified I discriminated against him by referencing his sexuality.

I know I really shouldn’t have mentioned it - I could have said the same thing without bringing it up but I just got more and more wound up by a bunch of men agreeing with each other instigated by him.

As I mentioned my boss is really right wing so I don’t think he’d report me for being discriminatory as he calls diversity and inclusion bollocks anyway. But if he does I know I could be in big trouble.

What do I do? I don’t know if I should message him apologising but that might just bring more attention to it…?

It’s ludicrous isn’t it that someone’s would write such a thing. The arguments have got so ridiculous.

and to the poster who asked what would it look like my husband having a say in an abortion or birth, it would look like two people discussing it, with love and care, on what was the best option for us as a family, the pros the cons, each of our feelings, ultimately the decision is mine, it’s always the woman’s at a micro level, but this doesn’t mean men can’t have a say. Which is very different

and pretending men don’t have a say shows a huge huge ignorance of politics. Everyone gets a say ultimately by who they vote in, it’s the very basics of democracy,

Of course they do, if I was to consider abortion I’d absolutely wish my husbands input into that decision, of course it’s ultimately my call but as the father he has a say and I’d wish him to have input

Yes but presumably you are in a loving relationship and you would use contraception and actually the risks of an unwanted pregnancy in that scenario are very small.

But if you found out the baby was going to be badly disabled, or the pregnancy would endanger your life, I'd say that's where his say ends. It's your decision and yours alone at that point.

Of course the grey area is if there is a contraception failure. But still your choice, as all the negatives fall on you.

There's a difference between input and going through with the final abortion. Let's be honest the man can have an opinion but it's the woman's call ... because its her body!

I think he was really irresponsible to be discussing this as a manager.
You referenced his sensuality but you were not derogatory about it so I wouldn't worry.
If he took it further, he'd have to discuss how and why it came up in conversation and he would find himself in hot water too.

Well done! You spoke up for womens rights

Do not apologise or back down. HE was offensive to YOU

She did point out she works in politics and duscuss political issues. Considering that it's a hot topic it would be difficult to avoid.

Some people have spoken about a male partner having input, having a say, etc...

Let's be honest here. Men only get a say into the decision as to whether we proceed with the pregnancy or abort as long as their say matches our say. If they wanted to keep the baby and we didn't want to carry it, we'd abort. If they didn't want to be a father and we wanted to be mums, we'd try to carry to term.

The whole 'men have input' isn't really true. We just try to make them feel included. But it's our decision. Always.

As least it should be...

It actually would affect him OP.

all those babies in the USA that will be born now to mothers That can’t look after them, don’t want them, will abandon them. Who do you think they’ll go to?

eager adopters. Many wealthier people inc gay men will benefit from the abandonment of lots Of babies because of the abortion ban.

when things like this happen. You cannot just look at who will suffer. Women and girls, especially women and girls from poorer backgrounds are now at an increased risk of maternal death etc
but we also need to look at who will benefit from this drastic change in law.

Doesn't matter what sex, gender, sexual orientation etc, we all have an equal right (and responsibility) to frame abortion (or any other) law, through debate and voting.

Totally agree. Just a shame that this process of debate and voting removes a woman's choice regarding her body primarily by men, many of whom ironically, seem unable to actually stick around and support their offspring.

America is not exactly known for its generous social system at the best of times either.

Contraception next- already hard to access in many places. Another choice taken away.

Ahhh but in this case it does matter though!

I guess keeping his sexuality out of it might have been preferable but his opinion is in blatant disregard for all the suffering and pain this ruling brings. If you’re going to be intentionally outspoken on a sensitive subject you’re likely to get on the wrong side of someone’s temper…I think you were pretty chill all things considered.

Yes well done for speaking up. It's a vile, shocking ruling and hard to believe he agrees with it. So I can understand that you must have been incensed.

But two wrongs don't make a right and what you said could be considered discriminatory. Yes, it's about women's bodies and our rights to choose - totally agree with that of course. But men - gay, straight, whatever are entitled to opinions. Also, gay men do father children, and some of the mothers may want or need to terminate the pregnancy. Whilst I believe ultimately it's the mother's choice, you can't say a biological father won't be affected by that decision just because they are gay.
You'd also be on sticky ground if anyone on the call didn't know he is gay (although it sounds like he is out with your team?)

It's a highly emotive topic and I fully understand your anger,

I'd suggest a quiet private conversation with him might be appropriate - which isn't the same as saying you should apologise.

If she works in politics and can't argue her case without personal outbursts she needs a new job, or to become a politician.

Why is a woman stating her opinion a personal outburst?

I am the only woman on the team and I was getting more and more irate. I blurted out something I probably shouldn’t have. I can’t remember exactly but it was something along the lines of:

“Well, what’s it to you? You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever but it is going to impact millions of often poor and vulnerable women. Men should have no say over women’s bodies.”

Its an environment where they're used to discussing issues. She allowed her emotions to get the better of her and was rude. If its her job she shouldn't be losing her cool. Your a man, your gay, your opinion doesn't matter is not an argument.

If she was in some form of political research or reporting I'd be concerned that she may not be able to present an unbiased report if she allows her personal opinions to shine through.

Not saying she's wrong just that its not the environment to come out with those sort of statements.

Making cheap dig at a persons sexual orientation is not the best way to state an opinion .

Why is a woman stating her opinion a personal outburst?

It's a personal outburst because she said 'You’re a gay man so it has no bearing on you whatsoever' - that's pretty personal.

Imagine the outrage if someone said 'you're a woman so it has no bearing on you whatsoever' to dismiss someone's opinion.

I DO understand the OP's anger and why she said it, but it was not an appropriate way of dealing with it.

Tbh saying that a gay man would be unlikely to experience abortion is not particularly discriminatory, it is fact. There was nothing unpleasant about his sexuality in that.

I am surprised by many of these posts.

Having a go at your boss on a Zoom
call might not be advisable, but what you said is not discriminatory nor is it homophobia. It is a factually, objectively correct statement: As a gay man who will never impregnate a woman or get pregnant himself, this ruling costs him nothing.

You could as well have said to a woman who supports legislation to make circumcision obligatory that it's easy enough for her to support it, since it will never happen to her. That wouldn't be discrimination or misogyny, either.

It would be discriminatory if you treated your boss worse than how you treat anyone else in a given situation because he is gay. It would be homophobia if you didn't like gay men because they are gay and your feelings became obvious in your comments. That is not what happened here.

"Imagine the outrage if someone said 'you're a woman so it has no bearing on you whatsoever' to dismiss someone's opinion"

If I was leading a heated debate on prostate cancer and ignoring the opinion of most men, then yes that would be fine.

Odd he's right wing when he is gay but I don't personally think you said anything wrong and don't need to apologise. This sort of stuff should not be discussed at work because it nearly always ends up awkward if not offensive.

If this were to be raised with HR I'd be pointing out that while he may not have started the discussion he obviously carried it on and more stridently knowing there was only one woman in the meeting, particularly given he's the manager and the power lies with him in the meeting. He knows other people will agree just because he's the manager. This is intimidating to OP. Also unless he lives under a rock he knows this is a highly sensitive and contentious issue and could be difficult for the only woman in the meeting.

I'm a manager in a public affairs environment and we often have politically based discussions and I just can't always involve myself depending on who else is there.

Women have male partners, brothers, fathers, friends affected by prostrate cancer so it would not be fine to dismiss someone's opinion because they are female.

The man's opinions are vile, I totally agree. But saying someone can't express an opinion because they are gay is out of order.

Are you sure - I thought surveys showed men and women have broadly similar views on abortion?