The Abortion Overton window

[MrsTerryPratchett]

There's already been a few and there will be more.

Following the American decision regarding abortion, campaigners and trolls will be trying to move abortion provision in other counties, including the UK, into a 'debate'. Our right to safe, accessible, free healthcare isn't a debate. As soon as people start behaving as though essential healthcare for women is debatable, we are in a dangerous place.

Please consider, when opening threads about abortion at the moment, that the aim is to move the Overton window. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window#:~:text=The%20Overton%20window%20is%20the,as%20the%20window%20of%20discourse

I'm not enabling voting because that would rather feed into my point.

There is some truly shocking polling on the issue from USA:

Americans said abortion should be legal if a woman’s health is at stake (73 percent) or if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest (69 percent), just over half (54 percent) said it should be legal if the baby was likely to be born with severe disabilities or health issues.

At first you might be happy to think these show a majority in favour of access to abortion, but note that they actually say:
1 in 4 think abortion should be banned even if a woman's health is at stake.
1 in 3 think it should be banned in cases of rape or incest.
Half think it should be banned if the baby will have severe disabilities.

Raising the Overton Window with respect to this issue is crucial. It is important to note "The most common misconception is that lawmakers themselves are in the business of shifting the Overton window. That is absolutely false. Lawmakers are actually in the business of detecting where the window is, and then moving to be in accordance with it." It is the general public (led by activists) that are the enemy - the politicians will just follow along.

USA turning into Gilead. Everyone I have spoken to in the UK is rightly horrified. One good thing about the UK is how religion plays little part in our society it massively does in some areas in the US.

As early as possible, as late as necessary
... is an excellent slogan

I trust women
... is not ideal. A number of women are anti-abortion - just note those protesting outside clinics etc. I trust the woman would be much better.

One piece of language that should be eliminated is Pro-Life. Whenever you have the chance use Anti-Choice instead.

Yeah you're right. Agree. Let's start taking about pro-lifers as anti-choicers.

Yes MrsTerryPratchett

#As early as possible, as late as necessary

What a depressing time it is for women

It is never appropriate to FORCE a woman to give birth against her will.

And yet that is what restricting the right to abortion will do.

I trust women to make their own decisions for themselves.

#AsEarlyAsPossible,AsLateAsNecessary

Actually, I would like to see the term ’Forced Birth’ used. Because that is what happens when a woman is not allowed to have an abortion - she is forced to give birth against her will.

I do think that that phrasing can change minds.

I will keep emphasising that in the USA, and other countries, no abortion means absolutely no abortion in any circumstances. They will sacrifice a mothers life even though there is zero chance of the baby living,

No abortion if the feotus is severely disabled and again zero chance of life.

No abortion for a 12 year old raped by their father.

I actually think in the UK most people see the need for legal abortions; the debate is about how late and using it instead of contraception.

You are the exact bloody reason OP started this thread.

Actually, I would like to see the term ’Forced Birth’ used. Because that is what happens when a woman is not allowed to have an abortion - she is forced to give birth against her will.

Agree with that.

Let's Overton Window 'pro-life' to 'anti-choice', then once that's been accepted 'forced birth'.

Out Overton them.

Do you think it’s acceptable for an 8 month old foetus to be aborted when it has no serious medical conditions?

I trust that THE WOMAN making the choice won't. And that is borne out in the statistics about abortion. Women generally attempt to access abortion as soon as they are able. Punitive abortion legislation makes abortions later. Free, safe and accessible means abortions happen earlier. If you want earlier terms, you make abortion accessible.

And yes, here come the forced-birthers from across the pond. You got a win in your own country for misogyny. Please leave other people's countries alone.

I also read somewhere part of the reason to ban abortion is to increase the supply of babies for adoption. Horrific reason and I hope not true.

@FemmeNatal so you would be much happier if a woman is thrown down stairs to trigger a miscarriage? I have known this type of abuse to happen multiple times until scans show its a boy.

Or infanticide. The United Nations has declared that India is the most deadly country for female children, and that in 2012 female children aged between 1 and 5 were 75 percent more likely to die as opposed to boys.

Must have been a long time ago as excluding the coil from insurance coverage has been illegal for some time now.

Do you think it’s acceptable for an 8 month old foetus to be aborted when it has no serious medical conditions?
Forgive me if I am being naïve but when has this ever happened??
The majority of abortions happen very early on. When I had an abortion I had to fight my doctor to sign the agreement, and that was pre 10 weeks. The pp is right; abortion in the ok is absolutely NOT “ on demand “ , it’s at the discretion of 2 doctors, and if those doctors think you shouldn’t they can make it very difficult for you. Not that it should matter (I trust women and girls to do what is best) but in that situation I was young, single and poor and I made a responsible decision, based on the life the potential child would be born into not based in the effect on MY life. I thought about the unborn potential child first, and in many ways it was the first properly adult decision I ever made. I have no regrets, it was the right thing, and I am grateful I had the choice. The vast majority of girls and women don’t take this decision lightly. The law needs to reflect that and respect that we know what we are doing.
Thank you Mrs Terry P for flagging that trolls are trying to open this as a debate. My 72 year old mother has been telling me about girls she knew who went to back street abortion places, and how awful it was back then and how she never thought we would be going backwards in this regard. It is horrifying.

The answer to any issues is better rights for women and better access to education, money and contraception.

This. This is spades. But by removing abortion and contraception, they are effectively keeping women in their place.

They don't give a shit about children, because otherwise they would throw money at children's social care and adoption services.

Not that long ago.

The Hobby Lobby case was in 2014. The court decided in a 5:4 decision that it was permissible to deny birth control coverage.

Oh dear God
"Women have to control the intake of semen"

twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/1540616136085180416?s=20&t=GzTOIyfX36i9LbkUovc6DQ

I'm so naive I did not realise that uk abortion law was so woolly. I'm well over breeding age now but disgusted at what I'm seeing in the USA. They have no healthcare for poor people, no job security, some states have no minimum age for marriage, mass shootings daily and now this. How are they different from taliban ruled areas exactly in their views on women?

A memory from 1998 I was on a TV chat show to discuss being child free by choice. (im in the UK) but i heard a man with an American accent shout out "You"re not human" as i began explaining my reasons for never wanting to be a parent. So you dont even have to be pregnant and want/need an abortion to upset the anti choice cohort. Just choosing not to reproduce is enough to rile them.

"As early as possible as late as necessary" YES Absofuckinglutely

Not that long ago.

The Hobby Lobby case was in 2014. The court decided in a 5:4 decision that it was permissible to deny birth control coverage.

I’m sorry, I don’t think my post above is very clear.

In the US, many organizations are allowed to refuse to cover birth control and have been able to since 2014. These include religiously affiliated charities and ‘closely held for-profit companies’. In other words, private companies which are 90% of US business and employ 52% of US workers. That could be a lot of people without insurance for birth control!

More information here: https://time.com/2941323/supreme-court-contraception-ruling-hobby-lobby/

Maybe women should take her advice literally, would love to see what would happen if all women who supported abortion rights, even if they don't live in the USA, refused to have any sex again until abortion rights are reinstated there (if the women feel safe to do so in their relationship).

@Malariahilaria Put like that you can see what a third world shithole it is.

When Trump was holding rallies and encouraging people to dispute the election outcome (also known as inciting insurrection), I used the phrase ‘banana republic’.

It seemed very much like what was going on in Central and South America when I was growing up.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/04/northern-irish-woman-suspended-sentence-self-induced-abortion

5 years ago. abortion was decriminalised in a part of the UK just 3 years ago. Was it a third world shit hole? If so why didn't the rest of UK women rise up and sort it out?

Instead of feeling smug about how much better the UK is than the US you might want to think about how tenuous these rights really are. The right to an abortion in the UK isn't defined as "as early as possible as late as needed". And it is defined under criminal law - not health care law.

I'm in the US and this is a devastating time for us women.