The Abortion Overton window

[MrsTerryPratchett]

There's already been a few and there will be more.

Following the American decision regarding abortion, campaigners and trolls will be trying to move abortion provision in other counties, including the UK, into a 'debate'. Our right to safe, accessible, free healthcare isn't a debate. As soon as people start behaving as though essential healthcare for women is debatable, we are in a dangerous place.

Please consider, when opening threads about abortion at the moment, that the aim is to move the Overton window. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window#:~:text=The%20Overton%20window%20is%20the,as%20the%20window%20of%20discourse

I'm not enabling voting because that would rather feed into my point.

Well then thank god people like you don’t make the laws.

Wow. Imagine telling on yourself like this. 😳

Sex selective abortion is a common argument brought out by right wing, Christian extremists.

All abortions are valid for all reasons. I support all reasons including sex selective abortion.

Well then thank god people like you don’t make the laws

Yes, how terrible and wrong of me to want to spare girls a life of suffering.

Many women experience nothing but exploitation, suffering and degradation.

Spend a couple of decades watching your kids die of starvation in a refugee camp, or locked in a brothel in Mumbai, being raped, then get back to me on whether it would have been preferable not to have been born.

There is no right to abortion in the UK. Abortion is legal if your life is at risk from the pregnancy or if 2 doctors agree that the physical/mental effects of continuing the pregnancy would be worse than termination. In practice, you can usually get an abortion if you need one. At the moment. In the mainland UK. But there is no right to one.

Everyone in the UK wringing their hands over Roe v Wade needs to wake up and realise how tenuous their own access to abortion is.

I think you are right about our current access to abortion. The link below is a good intro to the legal position on abortion in the UK. Note the part where it says there are private member's bills are put forward in nearly every parliament proposing amendments to existing legislation, some of them to secure our rights but others to take them away.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Abortion%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%20is%20legally%20available%20through%20the,No.2)%20Regulations%202020.

I agree with your point OP but I also think it is helpful to understand the arguments of the anti choice supporters so we can hone our own arguments. If someone does advance a private member's bill then #itrustwomen may work here on MN but it isn't going to cut it in parliament or the media where we need to win. We need to know our stuff.

I watched a debate a few months ago where and anti choice doctor claimed a woman could abort up to full term if a baby had a hare lip/cleft palate (can't remember which one he said) but when I looked into it I found he was technically correct BUT those abnormalities could be detected on pre 20 week scans and where either of those conditions was detected and given as one of the reasons for termination it was because they had occured in combination with other conditions which were incompatible with life beyond few painful hours. His argument was bullshit and I can refer to evidence to prove it.

I have seen these sorts of discussions getting more air time and column inches in the UK since we learned SCOTUS were considering rolling back Roe Vs Wade. The debate is coming whether we want it or not so I think it is better to be prepared.

Perhaps I'm so fiercely pro women and pro choice I'm confident they have nothing to say which will convince me. I know their arguments as well as my own.

FOJN
a former colleague of mine recently posted about her child who has Down’s syndrome.
She says she was repeatedly offered an abortion and was made to feel ridiculous for not having one. she was also offered one at 36 weeks.
the Child is perfectly healthy.
you seem to be suggesting that this doesn’t happen in the UK or am I misreading your post?

The poster to whom I was responded is fine with people in the UK choosing to abort at full-term because they are bearing a girl. I see no problem being happy that they don’t get to make any laws.

I cannot think of a single reason why any woman should be told she HAS to continue a pregnancy. No law should make that decision for a human being. What’s happened here is a disgrace.

i also agree that arguing with bigots gives them validity. A woman’s body isn’t an argument to be won.

FemmeNatal
absolutely.
you also always get the bizarre people on mumsnet who insist that no woman would ever abort a baby late stage for frivolous reasons too. Ignoring the fact that woman have, on occasion, killed older children for revenge on husbands and insist that mother should be able to abort her child as it’s making her way down the birth canal.

I cannot think of a single reason why any woman should be told she HAS to continue a pregnancy. No law should make that decision for a human being. What’s happened here is a disgrace.

Seriously? So there's nothing wrong with an 8month old baby inside a women but you still feel she has the ultimate right to kill that baby?

The poster to whom I was responded is fine with people in the UK choosing to abort at full-term because they are bearing a girl. I see no problem being happy that they don’t get to make any laws

Where did I mention term? Or the U.K?

Thank you, though, for providing a perfect example of the bad faith whataboutery and misrepresentation that the OP is warning us about.

Chip, chip, chip away at women’s right to choose. Sow doubt. Try to make people uncomfortable about siding with pro-choice arguments by misrepresenting them. We see you.

An "8-month-old baby" cannot be "inside a woman".

Kill a baby vs continue a pregnancy where the fetus may not live, may have life limiting conditions, the mother may have several “reasons” of her own that have zero to do with me or you. It’s her body alone; not yours or mine.

Be aware, at this time of night, that Pro-Lifers from the other side of the pond will now be trying to goad responses

Don’t rise to it. IGNORE

Smileyaxolotl1

No, I'm saying the doctor misrepresented facts to make his case.

Pippinbird
No Debate eh? Exactly what a lot of feminists criticise TRAs for.
Do you think it’s acceptable for an 8 month old foetus to be aborted when it has no serious medical conditions?

#As early as possible, as late as necessary
#I trust women

So.....a baby that's just been delivered is 9 months old to you then?

They need a domestic supply of babies now Russia and Ukraine are no longer providing.

It's fucking heartbreaking.

FOJN
ok - I’ve reread your post now. So he was implying that babies were being aborted at late stages for cosmetic reasons when those factors were in addition to serious medical conditions?
but it’s also true that foetuses with Down’s syndrome can be aborted at these late stages and I think a lot of people would be equally uncomfortable with that.

@CoastalWave I’d read the thread.

I support abortion, at any time, for any reason. Abortion is essential healthcare. It isn’t something up for debate.

Journalists for tabloid rags also like to do the rounds, anything for a good story.

it’s also true that foetuses with Down’s syndrome can be aborted at these late stages and I think a lot of people would be equally uncomfortable with that.

And those people who are uncomfortable with it can choose not to abort yes. For those pregnant women who think otherwise they too can choose what they're comfortable with.

#As early as possible, as late as necessary.

Thanks for the reminder.

I started a regular donation to the Abortion Support Network a couple of months ago, they cover Europe, but there are Abortion Funds in the US you can donate to as well.

One interesting and important thing globally.

Germany has done away with an anti abortion law that was remnant of facism.

Importnant news.

see here

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-abolishes-nazi-era-abortion-law/ar-AAYPMnU?ocid=uxbndlbing