This is not ok, is it? DH and DD.

[Thistledew]

DD is two years and two months.

For some reason she is going through a phase of resisting going to sleep. We do bathtime, story and then I close her blinds, put on some soothing music and her sparkly lamp and usually stroke her hair until she falls asleep.

Except for the last week or so she has been resisting sleep and at the point where normally she would be about to drop off she will sit up, play with her cuddly toys, ask for a breadstick, demand another story etc. Bedtime should be between 7.30 and 8pm, but we have been lucky to get her asleep by 9pm recently.

Today seemed particularly bad. It was passed 9pm and she was still not settling to sleep. As she kept trying to get me to play with her toys with her (and as I was getting frustrated) I said to her that I would not sit in the room with her but would wait outside until she was ready to go to sleep. She kept trying to follow me out so I was telling her to get back in bed and that it was sleeping time.

DH noticed me struggling and offered to take over. Unfortunately, DD only wanted me, and got upset and was trying to get past him and get out of the room. DH’s response (which I saw on the baby monitor) was to repeatedly push or drop her back into the bed, or to grab her legs and move them back into the bed as she tried to get out.

I could tell things were getting more and more fraught so I went back in. I picked up DD and she was shaking, but after a very quick cuddle she indicated she wanted to get back into her bed and then after one further very short story she was asleep.

I said to DH that I did not think it was helpful for him to manhandle her like that. She was getting more upset and it was not helping her to settle to sleep. It looked more like an attempt at discipline than helping her to go to bed. His response was that he had no other options and that he wouldn’t help at all in the future if his efforts were not good enough.

I replied that if he really couldn’t think of any other way than manhandling DD then yes, it would be better that he didn’t get involved.

AIBU that his treatment of DD was not appropriate? From listening to her she sounded cross rather than frightened, but it still clearly was not helping her calm down and settle for sleep.

Thanks for all the replies.

DD is usually asleep within half an hour after bath time, so pyjamas on, read some stories and then a few minutes of hair stroking (which she asks for) before she falls asleep. It has only been the last week or thereabouts that it has taken considerably longer.

DH was grabbing DD’s legs and pulling them round onto the bed quite quickly. I intervened at the point where I saw him drop her from nearly a foot down onto the bed in a horizontal position. I don’t think that he was actually hurting her, but it wasn’t helping her settle and her upset and calling for me was only escalating.

I don’t think that DH would deliberately hurt DD or our older DS, but I am worried about the fact that his natural frustration with their sometimes annoying behaviour comes out as anger on his part and that he often seems to see no alternative but to reacting physically or with anger.

I agree with this

He did nothing wrong remove her toys from her room do your normal routine if she up out of bed place her back to bed do not talk to her and keep doing it over and over as she is pushing boundaries, do not pander to her be firm, takes a few days to a week and they stop pissing about, always head back down stairs straight afar don't let her make a game of bed time

Isn’t that what happens (and has been approved by professionals) with the ‘naughty step’? Ie child is placed on naughty step and is repeatedly returned to it in a firm way when child tries to remove themselves. You have to be firm, not speak with them whilst returning them to bed. Might seem a bit brutal, but no damage done.

If he was aggressive then of course ynbu. We've all had to cajole our kids back into bed at some point or get all mommy and daddy on then when they're misbehaving, but if you feel it was aggressive in nature then that needs addressing

DH was grabbing DD’s legs and pulling them round onto the bed quite quickly.

Really?? Oh come on - he swung her legs round to get her into bed. And you're saying he's done it too quickly?? The reason she's playing up is she knows she will get her way with mummy. It'll get progressively worse if you're going to over react to him moving her legs round too fast.
When it gets to the stage she won't sleep at all, you cannot expect him to help if you are going to critique his every movement.

This

Hmmm 'pushing', 'grabbing' 'manhandling' is very emotive language and your child was actually 'shaking' was she?

If all of that is 100% right then you're asking a very silly question because as an adult you would know that's not ok.

But I suspect (due to the fraught situation) there's a bit of exaggeration here and I agree with a PP, he probably was fed up of all the molly coddling going on.

Your child is very much at the age where she's learning to manipulate you so watch out for that or bedtimes will take forever.

To get her to sleep his response was to 'push or drop her back into the bed, or to grab her legs and move them back into the bed as she tried to get out.'?

Surely @Thistledew is the one who should have been frustrated after 2 hours going by the logic of PPs?

It isn't obvious how bad this was, at best, OP, you and your DH have different views on sleep in this scenario. He thinks she should just go to sleep and he can leave after making her stay in bed, clearly that doesn't work for your child and she needs more at the moment.

A compromise would be your DH calming her down, explaining mummy is busy then returning your DD to bed with a hug. Maybe staying by her bed for a bit of reassurance. No force needed but it'll now be your DH who is reinforcing that mummy is the one she wants at bedtime if that's how he responds and your bedtimes are more calming.

To be honest with you, I regret wasting so much time trying to get a defiant toddler to sleep when they clearly weren't ready. In the end, I'd either stick on a really boring documentary with headphones in and get DD snuggled in for sleep or put on a podcast through headphones. She eventually grew out of that phase on her own.

At worst, if this was very forceful and excessive, I'd be thinking about my future with him very carefully.

What are you going to do @Thistledew ?

DD was shaking when I picked her up. It was probably just adrenaline rather than fright, but either way DH’s physical approach was not working and she was getting more and more upset to the point that she was screaming, crying and calling for me. It just did not seem to be heading towards her getting to sleep, other than perhaps eventually she would have fallen asleep through sheer exhaustion.

Is this the same DD who when she was an 18 month old baby, looked at you in the eyes and said "Thank you for everything you do for me mummy"?

If so then she's a smart cookie. Her dad seems to have the measure of her and clearly feels she needs a stricter approach unless you're happy to let the pandering go on until 9pm/10pm/11pm or whenever she decides to let you go.

Wow! she has you on a bit of string doesnt she!! How do you think this is going to play tomorrow night then OP? Sobbing, crying screaming - thats what I would call a tantrum and look, it worked. you came up and took over and she got what she wanted. He wasnt hurting her and you know it. she was shaking because she had worked herself up into a state in order to make you do what she wanted. it was a temper tantrum. 2 year olds having tantrums do this. If I was your partner I would be livid at firstly you spying on me and secondly in the way that you undermined me. You need to let her dad put her to bed for the next week. just him and you stand back from this. Otherwise this is going to drive a wedge between the two of you.

This ^ 100%.

All I can see is that your DH now has the perfect excuse to leave all the childcare to you. Sad, because fathers can be useful sometimes, but I'm sure you'll enjoy being the only boss in the house.

I think you probably have different expectations of bedtime with children. When our kids were little, I would have hovered and fussed when their dad would be in and out, job done. Both worked for a bit until they didn't. Children divide and conquer. We had to reach a compromise.

I am a gentle parent but I still put my children back in bed when they had got out many times. Gently, but with a consistent message. Their Dad did it in his way - with love but with firm limits. If a reluctant child is returned to bed, consistently, by a caring parent, then I would be wary of words like 'drop' or 'manhandle.' My kids are teenagers now, who sleep well and have happy, affectionate relationships with both of us.

It sounds like you have different approaches to how this bedtime behaviour should be dealt with.

Only you have seen the video and know your DP. If I had seen my DP do anything in anger or carelessly I would have intervened immediately. Otherwise, you might need to acknowledge that his approach is different to your's and you need to agree a shared strategy - not your way or his.

I agree.

Far too much pandering going on. You're making a game out of bedtime. No wonder she won't sleep.

As @HoboSexualOnslow said - isn't this the Supernanny concept?
We (neutral folks on Mumsnet) don't really know how 'rough' he was being - but to be honest what he was attempting to do (ie constantly putting the child back in bed) is a method that has been seen to work for years. Much more than lying there stroking hair or whatever.
I say this as a parent of a 14 year old who still has major sleep issues and we have been through every method ever invented.

Totally agree @worraliberty

Wrong thread...

WTF?

Quite a stretch!!
Does that mean that 'manhandling' a two year old into a car seat is abusive too??
Give over!!

I’m actually speechless that 48% think that what your DH did is ok. He physically abused a small child, disgusting.

He physically abused a small child, disgusting

Did we read the same thing?

He may have used a technique that didn't work, but there is no mention of any child being hurt in the process.