To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

Yes, it’s alarming, my own mother drilled it into us - you can’t rely on a man to look after you. However I do have friends - from quite comfortable backgrounds who have decided against a career. - but they don’t need to worry about pensions - bank of mum and dad. IMO teaching personal finance at school would make many women think twice about giving up financial independence. Although that wouldn’t help with the price of childcare- which is the single biggest barrier for most women wanting to go back to work. It’s almost like the government are actively keeping women at home.

@OrangeSamphire
That quote has been used to validate your argument.

I haven't assumed anything. I issue I have is with these assumptions. I never said working mums are hypothetical. You jumped on that a bit. Sahm shouldn't be coerced into giving up her position to facilitate something that may never be. It's a ludicrous, idealistic view.

Of course there are women and men who are ambitious. Not everyone's ambitions are n the same area.

Some people sound very judgemental and condescending on this thread.

The majority of women don't walk into a relationship like a robot and give up their independence and financial ability to support themselves.

People enter into a relationship of a marriage and it should be like being part of a team. Some scumbags leave their partner high and dry at their most vulnerable but others (like my husband) keep their word and see it as the mother doing their bit for the team while they do theirs.

When we had kids I gave up work because my entire monthly wage would have been used for nursery fees, it didn't make any sense whatsoever to work for nursery fees and have a generally more stressful life.

I intended to go back to work when he turned 4 and started school nursery, so the only cost would have been wrap around care. Then I became pregnant (much wanted and planned).

We decided to keep going with the original plan until the baby started school nursery. I was happy to be a stay at home parent and his wage just about covered everything.

Our second has a disability that has meant I've needed to be around to provide support to enable her to start school. She's almost 5 now and I'm still a stay at home parent and will be until we are confident she won't need me during the school day.

So should we not have had children just to save my financial independence? We are married and we are both on the mortgage 50/50 so whatever may or may not happen in the future he can't run for the hills and leave me with nothing. But some people may not be married or jointly own their home, sometimes people take risks in life it's really not as simple as stupid woman made bad choices.

@Topgub

You dont see the problem or inequality in you wasting that amazing education and opportunity while your oh didn't?

Is the only use for an education to put it at the service of a corporation?

My education has helped me to get a job but it has also help me to be a better member of society and a better mother.

So you really can't see how the number of women choosing to SAHM impacts how women in the workplace are perceived?

And that this is a societal barrier we would be best tackling together, rather than SAHMs just shrugging their shoulders because they are happy with their individual choice and don't see that they have any responsibility to other women (or even their daughters) to continue fighting for change?

No-one's forcing you to get a job by the way, just to engage positively in the issues being raised and work together to tackle them.

@Coyoacan

Who said anything about a corporation?

@OrangeSamphire

Can't tackle issues people refuse to acknowledge exist

According to this thread a society where no women work, at all, would be fine

“So you really can't see how the number of women choosing to SAHM impacts how women in the workplace are perceived?”

So I shouldn’t have become a SAHM just because it could affect the way women that work (which I now do) are perceived?! What utter rot.

Just because someone becomes a SAHM, they don’t morph into a 1950s housewife incapable of thinking, making decesions, and fully dependent on their husbands.

”No-one's forcing you to get a job by the way, just to engage positively in the issues being raised and work together to tackle them.”

As far as I’m aware, I perfectly capable of doing this whether I’m a working mum, or not.

“According to this thread a society where no women work, at all, would be fine”

Or all women work and no-one is permitted to be a sahm.

@Riverlee

Why did you become a sahm?

@Riverlee

Except the one I quoted has definitely been said and the one you've quoted hasn't.

I was a Sahm when eldest was born, and went back to work when dc were in school.

My quotes were taken from Orangesamphire (13:25pm).

@hammsalllad there are some posters busy bodies who contradict their own argument by conforming to outdated misogynistic stereotypes.

They see and hear only what they want. They are unwilling to listen, unwilling to digest what they're being told because it doesn't suit them. They hypocritically hand men power, by believing another woman could never know her own mind. They hypocritically hold other women who don't mirror them in such low regard. They hypocritically attempt to coerce other women into conforming to their ideals. They're negative, narrow minded fantasists, who choose ignorance.
These are poor traits.

@Riverlee

That doesn't answer why though?

I cant see where @OrangeSamphire said no one should be permitted to be a sahm?

Topgub - i dont think that society does say you can only raise your children if you dont work now. Maternal employment rates are really high in the SE in particular and really not far of male employment rates. A sahm is not the default. They exist of course and moreso in the early years or when children are disabled. For them that might be what they feel but i dont think the prevailing mood is women should stop work.

however there are lots of things women do differently to men when it comes to work after children which can leave them financially dependent. Women are more likely than men to:
Change to a job with less responsibility
Not seek promotion
Not do overtime
Not travel
Take a job closer to home
Take a job with far less hours
Or combinations of the above.
In fact there is only one thing men do when they have a family in greater numbers than women.They seek out higher paid work.
I dont like the assumption that women are doing work wrong and men are right though. I think more men should embrace things like taking jobs closer to home as well.

@AntlerRose

I think most people still view having a sahm as the ideal, for pre school children certainly, even if they can't achieve the ideal.

I know, relatively speaking, being a sahm is rare but these attitudes aren't. Unfortunately.

As shown on this thread I think most sahm believe wm are jealous and bitter that they have to work. Total rubbish of course.

There's lots of research that shows even young people think mums of pre school children shouldn't work.

Pretty depressing

@Topgub

”So you really can't see how the number of women choosing to SAHM impacts how women in the workplace are perceived?”

Maybe I read too much into this. I inferred that you shouldn’t become a sahm because it affects the way working women are perceived. Okay, it doesn’t actually say not to become an sahm, more that it’s a negative thing.

All woman should be respected for their life choices, not either or.

@Riverlee

Nah.

I dont believe all women should be respected for their life choices. Nor all men.

If women want to make sexist choices, they can. Literally no one stopping them but no one has to respect that choice

My friend did this and I’m quite envious of her life to be honest. Takes ad picks kids up, off all holidays with them, gym, Coffees’s lunches. Sounds great to me. Her financial security is the 800k house they live and being a 50% shareholder in his business. She chose well!

@Topgub - sorry, are you referring to sahms as being a sexist choice, or just general sexist choices?

(I obviously didn’t mean we should respect the life choices of female murderers, child abusers etc!)

As long as they never get divorced, yes.

If they did, hypothetically, of course, then that wouldn't go too far:

• even assuming the house has no mortgage, £400k each to buy a house isn't that much and would leave little/no nest egg left over


• she could only realise the shares if a) the co floated on the stock market (most businesses don't), or b) the business bought her out (which could sink the business.

Presumably she's a shareholder for their joint tax purposes, for when the business pays dividends. There's no other benefit to her, really.

@Riverlee

Both

Yes she gets dividends and a wage but also gets £40k paid into her pension annually (she is now 52 so not far off being able to access it) so she wound be ok. £400k is quite a bit here to be honest. To be honest he would be mad to divorce her anyway because without what she does, he wouldn’t have half the life he has now!

Ah savvy with the pension! (another massive issue for women that deserves its own thread)

@Topgub sorry, just realised I misread your question earlier. Ie. Why, and not when did I become a sahm.

i became a sahm because I wanted to be mum to my dc, and not miss out on their lives when they were young. Didn’t want other people to have them 9-5, whilst I could be doing that. Financially, we weren’t well off, and made scarifies (old car, cheap holidays etc), but that worked for us.

(disclaimer - not saying that those work aren’t mums to their kids, but didn’t know how to phrase it)