To be shocked that in the 21st century there's still a staggering amount of women who rely entirely on their husbands?

[EllieRosesMammy]

I see it far too often on MN, women saying their husbands have been cheating on them for years or treating them absolutely terribly, but saying they can't leave because they are entirely financially dependent on their husbands.

Is it just me who finds this mad in 2022? Or is it still normal for men to be 100% the provider of the household?

I just couldn't imagine being stuck in a rubbish situation simply because of money

I am absolutely in no way slating stay at home mums, or house wives here either. I just believe all women should be self sufficient enough that if they're in a bad situation they can walk away

Err what? Almost all couples with children I know are both working, they're struggling to make ends meet so actually NONE of them could survive financially without their partner. They need both incomes to pay the bills and they also need each other to share pick up/drop off etc. I know almost noone who is a SAHM. The idea that it's possible for most people to raise a family on a single salary is just pie in the sky.

I should probably offer some consultancy to feminists tbh given that I've forged a successful career in a very 'male' profession (perhaps considered the very most sexist if you believe all the stories of wolf whistling builders) and am also in the fortunate position where I could at any point take a few years off and be back in a £50k job within literally a week due to my truck/crane licenses which I've maintained.

No worries here about the bank of hubby trading me in for a newer model.

The idea that it's possible for most people to raise a family on a single salary is just pie in the sky.

This is sadly also partly a side effect of women entering the workplace. Not that I'm suggesting we shouldn't have the option.

But an option isn't an obligation and feminists need to wind their necks in telling women what to do, especially when they don't represent even a quarter of the female population.

Truth is, most women feel far more solidarity with their partner than with 'womanhood, which isn't a homogenous group as many like to portray it.

@TruthHertz

Rising costs of living is the fault of capitalism chasing constant growth. Not feminism

I can't picture many of the blokes in the offices where I've worked getting into pub brawls and football hooliganism. But that's the problem with only distinguishing between male/female and ignoring the multitude of other demographics like socio economics, class, ethnic/religious culture, etc.

So why can't one average salary buy a house nowadays?

You disagree that it's anything whatsoever to do with the modus operandi now being two salaries?

@TruthHertz

Youve got it the wrong way round

And we are off with this MN bullshit again. Its so ludicrous and baffles me

I havent read the thread, as i basically have, a million times before on here.

Get over it!! Dont be so deluded and arrogant to think you know what's best for everyone, you dont.

As a general rule

Everyone is different, with different valid choices.
Yours is best for you
You are a better parent for your choice.
Your choices arent best for everyone, just you.
Don't judge eachother on their choices on parenting, just get on with your own.

No woman should be shamed into going against what they feel is best for their family.

I'm not an idealist like many on here are.

I've worked with and am friends with many individuals of both sexes. It's en vogue to always slate men but honestly I've found women to be much more manipulative at work and reading the thread I've posted many other women agree.

Broadly speaking I've found that men seek to control through dominance and women more through manipulation. That may annoy some but it's my anecdotal experience.

Amen.

TruthHertz just because someone calls themselves a feminist doesn't automatically mean they hate men or have a desire to slate men.

Pointing out inequalities doesn't mean I hate men.

It's not idealistic to highlight how the use of particular language in relation to womens behaviour can be harmful. It's well documented that people will use derogatory terms to describe women behaving in a way that is celebrated in men.

Just for clarity i wasnt suggesting all men resolve all conflicts with aggression. I just havent found women petty, uncolloborative or indeed bitchy at any greater rate than men. I have found as a group men more aggressive than women, despite many men not being aggressive, and i find those that are as much of a drama as a women being passive aggressive.

I'm not suggesting you hate men. It's just that I judge people based on their actions rather than what they say, and many feminists seem to be far more sexist than the average man. Although granted this could be because it attracts a certain type of person in addition to those that just want to help women.

It seems like some 'feminists' don't care about helping women so much as trashing men, a bit like the ubiquitous breed of woke people who like to lecture people on how to conduct themselves but don't actually seem to make any other contribution.

But I do agree that women are chastised for things that men are praised for (e.g. promiscuity). But it does work both ways to some extent as men who show weakness are ridiculed rather than shown pity or given help. Similarly, I could joke about chopping of my partner's bits and nobody would bat an eyelid, but the equivalent would be considered very inappropriate if he said "I'd chop her tits off" etc.

I've definitely found women to be more cliquey but that's not to disregard anyone else's personal experience.

@TruthHertz i don't understand why people on here always feel the need to put a "staggering" amount of people in little boxes and make sweeping statements about eachother due to a judgment made on a family choice, but then get all shouty about not making sweeping generalisation about genders. The idea baffles me....surely dont pre judge anyone take every person on their on merit and not such disgusting comments that are made on here
So hypercritocal

Also, you only have to read AIBU to see how many women get involved in petty drama. Bickering with the MIL and threads 'fuming about her comment' etc. I don't see any equivalent in men.

@TruthHertz

That's because you dislike women so your bias is slated towards favouring men.

Meaning you'll see pointing out actual sexism as a slight against men and will likely ignore actual sexism from men

That's an interesting point.

Tbf, I'm probably being a little more argumentative than usual as I've had a few drinks, but I often feel like feminists are a bit myopic in only looking at male/female.

No doubt, it's a dynamic that needs to be considered, but IMO it's a bit shortsighted to not differentiate in other ways too. I've seen people on here trying to say 'oh, but it's all male violence', for instance. But really a Caucasian hedge fund manager probably isn't chopping off heads in the name of Allah, and a Sikh male probably isn't beating up immigrants in the name of British nationalism and subscribing to Tommy Robinson's views etc.

If you say so...

I just don't believe for a second that a large number of the women who continue PT work after having kids see it as some kind of oppression rather than just doing what's best for them (as they should). That might explain why the majority of women refuse to call themselves feminists nowadays despite claiming to support equality of the sexes.

Oh dear, we seem to have attracted a couple of MRAs and the discussion has descended into absolute nonsense...

But nobody is saying that all or large proportions of women who work part time are oppressed. However, it's not a simple as them all choosing to work part time because they think it's the best thing for the children. It's far more complicated than that.

For many that is the reason but for others the choice I at as straightforward.

Just in my circle of friends you see this played out perfectly.
One is a SAHM out of choice

One is a SAHM because she was made redundant and has decided to retrain

One was a SAHM but now works very, very part time because her husband's job makes it difficult for her to work and her children don't like the before and after school club. She's desperate to work and is getting quite resentful.

One works part time out of choice and her main driver is not liking her job. Her kids are in secondary school now.

I work full time out of choice

That's reality

Nobody in almost 20 years has ever asked me if I am a SAHM, if I work or whatever. In real life, it's a non-issue. Also the line is blurred, especially with WFH, because many women who are essentially a 'SAHM,' are involved with certain projects from time to time. Eg. I was at a friend's last week and she was showing me how she is making info booklets and a website in a particular language she also speaks for women from a particular community who don't tend to see gynaecologists or access pregnancy services because they are worried about seeing make doctors and other cultural reasons. Her husband is a surgeon which is probably how she got involved in this. Who knows if she's getting paid but regardless, a lot of SAHMs are involved in all sorts of things, but you would never know unless they told you. All the SAHMs know are educated, competent women - which is why I get irked by the jumped-up, patronising tone towards SAHMs on MN - as if they don't somehow have agency to understand what they're doing. In my direct experience, most SAHMs are probably more in control of their lives than the average women, to be perfectly honest.

Nobody in almost 20 years has ever asked me if I am a SAHM, if I work or whatever.

If nobody asks then they are assuming you don't work.

Yup.

When one of my children was born with disabilities, people stopped asking me what I do. I am sure a contributing factor to this was the assumption (wrong) that mothers of disabled children don’t work.

It is of course very difficult to combine caring for disabled children with a conventional job. Which is why I now work for myself. Mostly from home. So in essence I am both SAHM and WAHM (and sometimes WOHM). This is all possible in todays world.