To think work isn’t compatible with being a mum

[Ori1]

Not until they’re about 6. The system as it is requires women to basically do the hardest job going (birthing/parenting through the early years) and work a job. I do both, and quite honestly it’s a fucking shitshow - I’m permanently tired, I feel like a Jack of all trades & a master of none, I also feel like a fraud at work because I’m constantly comparing myself to colleagues who don’t have kids & who seem to have boundless enthusiasm/energy.

I just think the way society is does nothing to benefit women and everything to complement men. Why don’t women get any slack whilst doing the most important job there is; why haven’t we thought of ways. they can be more supported so they don’t have to work during the early years and raise a family?

Have you looked at the research done in Scandinavian countries where nursery child care is common?

Research has shown that one-to-one interaction with children is far more beneficial in the early years (0 months to 3/4 years) than a group setting.

That being said, I certainly don't want to make any parents feel guilty. I just feel that the UK system of 'encouraging' women back to work for purely economic reasons is not necessarily the best strategy ?

Some women would prefer to work outside of the home and some women would prefer to stay at home and work. I'm just asking why women raising children should be valued less?

@ilovemyspace

Why shouldn't we be valuing men raising children?

How do you think wp manage to raise their children?

Because parents are producing the future workforce, without which the economy as we know it couldn't continue.

@topgub Why shouldn't we be valuing men raising children?
How do you think wp manage to raise their children?

I think anyone raising children should be valued!! And the children we raise are going to form the world we live in.
Not understanding what you mean by "How do you think wp manage to raise their children?"

So those unable to have children should just buck up accept that they are second-class citizens, and shoulder the extra burden?

I don’t think I can get behind that.

Ii agree. I’m searching for suitable childcare all the time and there’s nothing. It’s just so hard to even get to work! Why isn’t there a good quality state run provision for all age children throughout the year? The issue with childcare isn’t just cost there just isn’t anything available.

I’m 50 and have quite a few single child-free friends of the same age. I am HUGELY envious of their blithe ability to plan holidays (booking 1x flight rather than times five), save, contribute to pensions, buy buy-to-let flats, have private health care, etc. Work for them has been a linear progression in terms of opportunities and wages. I am years, and several tens of thousands of pounds (income, savings, pensions) behind them, which will be perpetuated in retirement.

So those unable to have children should just buck up accept that they are second-class citizens, and shoulder the extra burden?

No, that's not what was being said xx

@ilovemyspace

So why did you say women raising children and not men?

And we should value women raising children like working mums dont raise their kids?

Exactly - you're searching for suitable childcare ....... it's so hard to get to work...

If you want to work so much, then why have children?? BUT, on the other hand, if you want children, why shouldn't it be considered a legitimate job?
And, before anyone flames me, yes I really believe that raising children in a loving environment is a valuable job. I am a single parent and I know all of the difficulties and all of the guilt.
And, on a purely logical level, where would society be if we didn't have children? - who would pay for your pensions in old age.
The truth is, we all need each other. No job is more important - we all have our part to play in this big jigsaw of life

@Topgub I decided to stay home rather than DH A) because there is a lower ceiling to my earning potential in my career than in DH, but mainly B) because I genuinely like staying at home. Not only childcare, but also 'making a home', learning new skilled, and I am also better at just enjoying myself with a cup of coffee or a nice lunch or a day out, while DH is a natural workaholic. I invest the money DH earns in joint names though, and I am the one managing the assets, property renovations and maintenance, dealing with tenants - and as I have more time as a SAHP, we don't need to waste money on letting agents or building contractors, so every penny we make/save on our investments we can reinvest in additional joint ventures. So I have a private income/private wealth and also a private pension from previous career/ investments, and would keep all that in the case of a divorce, plus half of DH current pension pot, but I think/hope we are actually less likely to divorce as less stressed/less nagging etc. and appreciate each other more. Women also receive their state pension contributions until their youngest dc is 12.

Because women, like it or not, are still the ones who shoulder the majority of childcare.
Of course, working women raise their kids - that's not what I'm saying.
I just think all parents should be given the space to raise their children without having to worry about HAVING to go back to work. Childcare by parents could be considered a ' proper job' just as much as 'going out to work' if that's what parents prefer. Society shouldn't be a ' one -size -fits- all' ??

@Topgub
The fact is the burden of child rearing falls extremely disproportionately on women.

It happens to be so in every part of the world, possibly because of biological factors (giving birth, postnatal hormones, breastfeeding).

We are all for men parenting more; and of course families come in all different shapes and sizes (same sex, etc).

Don't think anyone disagrees with you there.

Some people may have the right balance and don't struggle but clearly a lot of people are finding parenting + working very hard to juggle.

But the point is - it should be equally as hard for the dad

you are focusing only on the mum and I’m not sure why

i wouldn’t have given up work when I became a mum

To be honest, I often wonder why people decide to have children if they still want to put all their energy into 'having a career' - -

I didn't want to put all my energy into 'having a career' when my kids were small @ilovemyspace , but neither did I want to chuck it all away and start at the bottom again when they were both at school. We were lucky in that my in-laws offered to do one day of childcare a week, so our children had two days a week at nursery and five days with a parent or grandparents, while both parents were able to work 4 days a week and keep our careers plodding along until we got enough time and energy to move on up again. I really think this was a good mix for everyone! But again, this relied on both of us believing that childcare was to be shared and actually doing it.

@NellyBarney · Today 00:00
@Topgub I decided to stay home rather than DH A) because there is a lower ceiling to my earning potential in my career than in DH, but mainly B) because I genuinely like staying at home. Not only childcare, but also 'making a home', learning new skilled, and I am also better at just enjoying myself with a cup of coffee or a nice lunch or a day out, while DH is a natural workaholic.

Totally agree and very well expressed!

What works for one person may not work for another ..... but surely we can all support each other? What works for one may not be another's cup of tea - but that's the way the world works!

And if raising children was given proper financial recognition. I wonder how many more parents would be happier staying at home?

while DH is a natural workaholic.

I find it interesting that workaholic is a positive when talking about a father but it has far more negative connotations if referring to a mother.

There is no magic cut off age where you finally feel you’ve got the hang of parenting without guilt. But it is so much harder in the early years.

My dad was a workaholic & my mum was at home. I wish I had more time with my dad though, he was very hands on when around though. I grew up very privileged but money isn't everything & I knew I would never marry someone like my dad.

Have you tried childcare.co.uk ?

@puddingandsun

You haven't really answered my question.

@ilovemyspace

So if every parent is given the chance to just parent. Who is going to work?

The idea that women are just naturally better at being at home and men naturally better at work is such outdated sexist claptrap.

Honestly it's like some kind of weird time warp on here

Ifihearmumagaintoday - yes

no places at after school club - been on waiting list two years

no more spaces at any childminders which serve our school

have tried to recruit part time nannies - everyone wants full time
So then resort to trying to recruit full time nannies - they don’t want the job because they will be bored while kids at school

no places at after school club - been on waiting list two years

where do you live? that seems ridiculous. We have to rebook clubs & asc every term.

Totally agree with this!
Oh and " Cant have it all" grinds my fucking gears.
A nasty, sneery put down that only applies to women not men.

I work full time with 3 young children 6 and below. I'm the main earner by a considerable way. I've always worked. But whilst I work in a male dominated industry - im the only woman in my team actually - it has good work life balance and my boss is family friendly. So it really depends on your job and your support network. Whilst we don't have family close by we do have good childcare but I had their names down for that in early pregnancy. DD school we chose on the basis that adequate before/after school or childminders were available. Had we not secured a place when we were choosing the school we would have opted for a different school that did. Most things are possible if you plan ahead.