To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

I 100% support trans rights.

I support everyone's right to be who they are comfortable with.

I support trans rights to spaces of their own which are safe and to be free of fear and persecution.

I also support woman's rights for the same.

Therefore as I can't change fact or biology I support identify rights - and identifying as a social construct that you've decided the meaning of (so a trans woman wearing a dress has decided that gender stereotype that woman wear dresses) does not change nor will ever change your biological sex.

So call yourself a trans woman and live your life. I'm behind you. But don't expect me as a biological woman to feel comfortable having a penis exposed to me to a space for biological woman.

So again, what are they identifying as? You can’t say a woman is someone who identifies as a woman, we need to know what a woman is.

And the prisons question?

Pretty please?

Your thread would be different - and probably more civil - if you’d said this in your OP.

Ah but I don't recognise the word women as a gender identity but as a statement of sex

After all everyone has a sex but not everyone has a gender identity

So you don't actually think they're women then?

Go on, be the first person in history to successfully define what you mean by 'woman'.

How can people tell me to ‘stick around and have a debate’ when this happens? You’re making it impossible to engage..

Perhaps answer some of the questions posters have taken the time to ask and they may think you actually do want to engage?

I support trans rights but they are not women, trans women yes but not Biologic women.

biological

Further uk law is written based on the sex definition- eg relating to physical differences

If women can have knobs, then it's a bit transphobic to say that "put your knob away" is transphobic.

So.. what is a woman op?

It's more like saying they don't believe that boris Jonson is a good prime minister even though he identifies as such

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you've just won the internet for me today 👏👏👏👏👏

Womanhood is a biological reality. It's not a choice or a feeling or a collection of stereotypes.

Buying into the idea that trans women = women has damaging consequences for women, which we've already seen in terms of not being allowed to say the word 'woman' or define what a woman even is. Meanwhile, Roe v Wade is being overturned - right at the moment women need to unite and organise, we're also being told womanhood is a vague concept that can apply to anyone who wants in. This is dangerous, offensive, and inaccurate.

I’ve tried to answer as many questions as I can in the other thread. I’ve also said that I don’t have the answers to tricky questions of whether trans women should have access to women’s refuges etc. I really don’t have a solution to this.

But I still believe trans women are women.

BUT WHAT IS A WOMAN????

OP: Transwomen are women, I'm absolutely sure of it.

Also OP: I have no idea what a woman is.

If you can’t define women @StolenCookie , then you’re just another plopped coming to try and grab screenshots arent you? On the thread last night you claimed you were an ‘ardent feminist’. Who exactly are you supporting in your feminism if you can’t even define woman

I believe ‘woman’ is a gender identity. Something you feel. A personal identity. You can’t define it categorically (e.g. all women have XYZ). So if a person with male genitalia identifies as a woman, I recognise them as such and believe they are a woman.

@StolenCookie, do you believe that trans women offenders should be placed in women's prisons? Given that a majority of trans women offenders are convicted of sex offences, do you believe that those trans women should be locked up in double cells with women, and should be showering naked with women, often locked into the showers when staffing is a problem?

Is this genuinely ok with you?

georgarina
Meanwhile, Roe v Wade is being overturned - right at the moment women need to unite

It's interesting that you say that, because of the TRA's on MN I've stopped calling myself a feminist and hate being associated with the term.

You are out of your depth and massively out of touch with the debate. It's clear you don't really think TW are the same as females. You want to be kind but haven't considered the potential impact on females.

trans women are women, you can’t support trans rights and not believe that. You’re just a group of bored arseholes who want to not in my back yard something that doesn’t fundamentally affect you. Trans people - especially women - are some of the most vulnerable in society at present. In 20 years you’ll look back and realise you were on the wrong side of history

Women need to keep fighting for womens rights, those fights will never stop for us as can be seen in America today

some of the things transwomen are pushing for are always going to be in conflict with the rights of women.

no I will never see them as women. That’s not being hostile towards trans it’s just me saying I will not forgo my identity so that someone else can forge their. Especially for someone who is biologically male.

Grab screenshots for what?