To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

You know there’s a really cool thing called a dictionary. It’s how people know what words mean. Been around for hundreds of years. I think bookshops sell them. Or you can even get online ones. It’s awesome,

What…….

Are you saying anyone who undergoes medical treatment is mentally unwell?

I ask again- What is a “biological woman”.

"And yet you are yet to explain to me how you are defining “female”. Oh sorry I can’t ask you to do that cos it’s too much “emotional labour”. But you can keep using your ill defined terminology to justify your hateful and exclusionary politics."

a) I did define it. XX chromosomes, ability to produce large immotile gametes
b) I don't know what you're quoting from, I didn't say that
c) saying TW are men is not hateful or exclusionary. It is biological FACT.

But there are millions of women around the world
who don’t have xx chromosomes.. are you saying they aren’t women?

um yes.. it’s kind of what medical treatment is there for. You done go to a doctor if you’re well you little tinker you unless you like wasting doctors and nurses time

'Err.. but someone identifying as female isn’t damaging their health like someone with anorexia.

They’re also not mentally unwell.

What a strange argument.'

Stolen cookie, you haven't responded to previous posts about Rachel Dolezal. She's not damaging her health by claiming to be black. Is that OK?.

Actually, trans women who undergo gender reassignment are probably damaging their health in quite a profound way.

Sure. I’m certain some of them were unwell.

But what about the thousands who have transitioned and are happy with their decision?

People make mistakes. People make what in hindsight they feel was a wrong decision. That doesn’t make that particular course of action inherently a wrong one. Some people regret marriage - that doesn’t make the institution of marriage wrong.

@StolenCookie anyone who has radical, life altering surgery on a healthy body is mentally unwell.

@StolenCookie a biological woman is an adult human female ie homo sapien an a member of the sex class that has only X sex chromosomes and produces large, immobile gametes.

Every. Single.Time.

I wish I kept a link to the debunk on hand.

I’m (despite Mumsnet telling me I am a man and so can’t be) pregnant and going to have a C section for the birth.

That’s a medical intervention.

I’m not mentally unwell.

again, there are millions of women around the world who have Y chromosomes and who don’t have large immobile gametes.

Swyers Syndrome is a DSD. I've already discussed why DSDs have no place in this debate.

Yes please do send.

Summing up.. @Tandora produves an article to back up the claim sex is not binary that talks about DSDs if sex was not binary, there would be no such thing as a DSD would there?

Why?

Is a 5 year old male who thinks he's a girl a girl? What does being a girl mean to him? If he's not a girl, at what point does thinking he's a girl make him a girl?

Judging by your posts on here that is debatable.

This discussion has every place in a debate when your argument rests on sex is a binary, biological, unambiguous FACT.
what you are saying is incorrect: ideology , not science, and needs to be called out if it’s the entire basis for your argument.

Men are not women. End of. Everyone free to leave now.

This makes no sense.

So if sex is not binary, what sex are people with Swyers syndrome? If sex is not binary, how would a person with a DSD know they had a DSD?

I think the only way around this is to completely scrap gender identity....that is a social construct and refer to biological sex only.

You cannot change your DNA.
I don't however care if someone wants to wear a dress, make up, jeans, paint their nails, be a builder, be a ballet dancer, dance is chainmail at a Viking festival.... 100 percent support anyone being their true authentic self..... But their biological sex remains the same .

So, your utterly predictable retort aside - your point clearly makes no sense.

Is anyone who has treatment for cancer mentally unwell?

What about a mole removed?

You said anyone who undergoes medical treatment is mentally unwell.

Explain how that isn’t nonsense?