To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

nah mate You peaked at the scientific American. You’re just posting any old gubbins now. At least make an effort.

Not at all. chromosomes play a role but they are not perfectly determinative- and not perfectly binary- there are variations. Sex is a complex and diverse developmental process.

@BoredofthisCrap7 I stand corrected!

Sorry the image didn’t attach

“Mate” there are a multitude of scientific articles which describe how sex is a complex and diverse developmental process.

Uh huh. And yet still only two, still need one of each to create a baby and only one sex can get pregnant. Sex is binary and immutable I know facts trigger you but facts is facts baby

"It’s not possible to support them and at the same time tell them they are not what they identify as."

I'd also like to point out the glaring error in the above statement.
It is perfectly possible to support someone by NOT affirming or validating their belief as what they identify as.
I would not be supporting an anorexic who thought they were fat and wished to lose another 10 pounds. In fact, it would be irresponsible of me to agree with their belief that they were fat.
Likewise, I would not be helping a paranoid schizophrenic who thought the TV was talking to them. I'm not going to agree that this is true. I can support them in their situation but I don't have to subscribe to their inner feelings and beliefs.

Likewise, I do not subscribe to a quasi religious gender ideology that I know is based on a falsehood.
I KNOW men cannot be women in any real, measureable, quantifiable way.
And I do not consent to compelled speech, and so I am not going to "play along" with the ideology.

Supporting someone does not mean validating a fiction.

But some women can’t get pregnant though.. 🤔

“Facts is facts baby” 😂

fwiw, I see the MN anti-trans thing as actually deeply rooted in MN being totally & completely Anti-male. There is constant resentment here & attempts to twist any and every life problem into males vs. female issue.

Wanting to do that is dressed up as some sort of crusade for justice and gender-role balance, but fundamentally it's just a deeply misandrist place. People enjoy nursing rage & resentment under guise of saying they have a social justice reason.

Err.. but someone identifying as female isn’t damaging their health like someone with anorexia.

They’re also not mentally unwell.

What a strange argument.

And? Are you saying a woman who can’t get pregnant is not a woman? So that would be 100% of transwomen then. Have you heard the phrase ‘when in hole, stop digging’?

Why do you keep repeating that phrase you've copied and pasted from somewhere but don't have the capacity to expand on? No one said it wasn't a complex process. That means things can go wrong. It doesn't mean there are more than 2 sexes.

'
But some women can’t get pregnant though.. 🤔'

So? You have to be a woman to get pregnant. No one said you have to get pregnant to be a woman.

No I’m saying women who can’t get pregnant are women. Whether you can get pregnant or not in no way defines what sex you are.

But ALL people who get pregnant are FEMALE......

ANother one for the bingo card?........

But @StolenCookie transpeople are by definition suffering from a form of mental illness. Otherwise they would not need medical treatment would they?

Is it 'anti-male' for a woman to not want to be locked up in a prison cell or a prison shower room with a male-bodied person?

Yes there are. But the scientifically credible ones don't say anything that supports the idea of trans women being biological women. They are to do with differences in sexual development which is completely different and does not in any way suggest that sex in humans is not binary.

"Err.. but someone identifying as female isn’t damaging their health like someone with anorexia.
They’re also not mentally unwell."

In your opinion.
And tell that to the hundreds of detransitioners who now say they were mentally unwell and needed mental HELP - NOT drugs and surgery.

A heterosexual man has the right to declare that from now on he will exclusively pursue sexual romantic relationships with homosexual woman. Other people including but not limited to homosexual women have the right to think that that is a little creepy at best, rapey at worst depending on how aggressively he pursues them.

I do not believe that there is any feeling he could have which would override that basic truth.

I truly believe that tw feelings matter, I just won't accept that theirs are the only feelings that matter.

https://genderarguments.com/openletterbiologicalsex/

I don't know if you have seen this Tandora?

It perfectly skewers the deviousness of "it's all soooo complicated".

@StolenCookie Errrrr, yes they are. Trans women are damaging their health through hormones and surgery.

And yet you are yet to explain to me how you are defining “female”. Oh sorry I can’t ask you to do that cos it’s too much “emotional labour”. But you can keep using your ill defined terminology to justify your hateful and exclusionary politics.

I think someone identifying as a woman who then goes on to surgically sterilise their body and mess with their hormones is very much harming themselves actually.