To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

Really?

You're policing it by saying anyone who wants to may enter.

What @BoredofthisCrap7 said. With bell, whistles and knobs on.

Exactly this. I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for voicing it better than I could.

@itsgettingweird I guess the previous poster is referring to the physical and endocrinologist expression of genetic sex which can indeed be complex. That's nothing to do w the trans issue though.

endocrinological

Thanks.

I realise gcse biology wouldn't teach me everything I needed to know!!!

I'm also glad you confirmed it's nothing to do with trans people.

This article has a digestible overview

www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

I think any woman reading this who is a bit on the fence should ask themselves this:

If you had to spend a night/week/month/year in a prison cell would you be happy for you to be locked up with a person with a penis who feels like a woman?

No idea what this means

Called it!! What do I win? Every rucking time they drag that article out 😂😂😂😂

Someone asked about the process of sex development and it has a simple , digestible overview and it is not behind a paywall. Why not share it ?

Because it’s crap that has been disproved many times. If that’s the best source you’ve got it’s no wonder you can’t even convince yourself TWAW never mind anyone with more than one functioning brain cell.

What is crap and has been “disproved” exactly?

You do know that article completely tanks the argument you put out earlier that sex is not defined by chromosomes right? Or did you not read the article.

Well I don’t accept that trans women are women.
I don’t think I am phobic as I really don’t care how someone chooses to live their life as long as they don’t think their rights as trans trumps mine as a woman.
if I meet a trans individual I will use what ever name they request as that is part of being polite but I am not going to think I am actually talking to a woman who has shared my experiences as a woman.

Nope. Trans women are trans women. They are not women. I find the whole thing so fucking depressing.

However I “feel” as a woman, I am a woman. I was the biggest tomboy going as a child and still like traditionally male things and am not remotely “girly”. Still a woman. I experience being a woman very differently to someone who loves dresses and pink and traditionally feminine things. But we’re still women because we have female chromosomes.

I cringe when I see trans women wearing heels, make up, skirts. I have never seen a trans woman who dresses like me (jeans, short hair, no make up etc). I look like a woman, am not afraid of dressing up when I have to but my natural style is very un “girly”.

We are male or female (almost all of us). The sooner people embrace their healthy natural bodies and just be whatever type of boy/girl man/woman they want to be, the better.

I do find your post goady. And on a site that is predominantly women, I think it’s ok to assume that we’re not transphobic, we’re just fed up with (mainly men) telling us what a woman is.

As foreseen way upthread

So we’ve had the famous article. Bets on clownfish next..

I suffered severely from anorexia. My body felt wrong and I identified as obese. I was 6 stone. Was I right?

if someone identifies as an amputee should we remove their limbs?

Why is the only approach for gender dysphoria affirmation?

user58486267489 ·
I agree with the the vast majority of your post, except this part:
"We are male or female (almost all of us)."

There is no one who is NOT either male or female. There is no third sex. There is no true hermaphroditism in humans, so you are either male or female.
DSDs and their chromosomal combinations are still male OR female.

'And also “sex” isn’t perfectly binary'

It is though. Nature has made it that way to ensure our continued existence. It's bollocks like this which is keeping people from getting on your side you know. It really offends most people to expect them to put aside the facts that they know in favour of someone else's pseudo science.

Here are some more if you prefer

www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/sexual-development

embryo.asu.edu/pages/sex-determination-humans

The author herself said she was not arguing for more than two sexes

I am of the view transwomen are not women. To convince me otherwise you have to explain what exactly 51% of the population is first. What makes them different to the other percent?

I am also of the view my 4yr old was not a cat no matter how much she purred, meowed, washed her face, crawled on all fours and needed to lick milk out of a bowl. Her belief, her wish, her desire to be a cat did not override the fact she wasn't a cat.