To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

Of course they do. But not always in the expected and assumed to be obvious ways.

So I don’t base my judgements about their gender on these factors.

So what do you (and your 3-year old) base it on?

What a load of shite.

often we can tell what “sex” someone is, but often we can’t- most of the time we rely on social queues (hairstyle/ clothes/ names etc). And also “sex” isn’t perfectly binary- the notion of binary biological sex is a rough proxy for a very complex and diverse developmental process.

Trans people need better healthcare - not to transition but most the care isn't evidence based and doesn't include nearly enough mental health support.
Men cannot and never will be women no matter how much they like dresses and make up

Anyone else remember the transwoman who started a thread some time ago (year or two?) Who said she never claimed to be a woman and knew nothing would ever make her a woman.

She hated the TRA movement for their misogyny and aggression

Trans rights do not trump womens rights.

Social queues of course. Which is why “man” and “woman” are social categories.

What do you base it on? Or do you ask everyone to drop their trousers so you can inspect their genitalia? (And then give them a quick genetic test for extra rigour).

3.. 2… 1. @Tandora is about to be offensive to those people with DSD by claiming they are not male or female but some nebulous 3rd sex.

*cues not queues 😂

Oh no! All those uppity women demanding to have safe spaces! How dare we! How phobic of us not to bend over backwards and compromise our safety! Wicked, wicked women. How evil of us to refuse to participate in the fetish role play of random men.

Have you read the Transwidow Escape Committee threads? Do you think it is a random statistical fluke that all of their spouses or former spouses are clearly autogynephiliacs?

Ha I’m certainly not the one in the business of telling people what sex/ gender they are because of their body.

often we can tell what “sex” someone is, but often we can’t- most of the time we rely on social queues (hairstyle/ clothes/ names etc).

Nope. Pattern recognition in mammals is pretty good. Hip to waist ratio, height, length of limbs, hip set, Adam's apple, even smell, there are a million ways to 'see' sex which aren't haircuts.

The social construct is gender. And it's totally and completely wonderful to express gender any which way makes you happy. There are important sex-based rights and issues which should be based on sex.

OP gets to waft them away with 'it's complicated'. Yes, it is. Don't be a bloody child and if you believe something, do the thinking.

Stop pretending you know anything about biology when you clearly don't.

So if a woman has short hair and is wearing a men’s tee she’s be a man according to you? Or are you going by the actual biological differences such as skull shape and size, face shape, ear and nose size, hand and foot size?

Or policing the biological boundaries of gender categories.

You’re the one claiming sex is not binary. Which is stupid beyond belief.

And also “sex” isn’t perfectly binary- the notion of binary biological sex is a rough proxy for a very complex and diverse developmental process.

There are billions of people in the world. They were all created from one egg and one sperm cell - one from a female and one from a male. That's pretty fucking binary.

I clearly no much more about the biology of sex that you do. I happen to have read a lot of scientific research on it 🤷🏼‍♀️

It isn’t perfectly binary though. That’s just science.

Many feel like this.

It's why trans people struggle so much.

That's why I said up thread non trans people shouldn't fight for trans people based on one argument they've heard from an extreme group.

Me and ds laugh our heads off all all the arguments non disabled people give on behalf of disabled people about why they have and need disabled parking spaces.

Very few are accurate and most are based on their lives experience of the 1 disabled person they know.

Trans Woman has the word woman in it. I don't really understand why that isn't enough.

Oh no ITS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL

There are biological cues too of course, but those can be varied an ambiguous. So we do rely a lot on social cues- probably why we have developed so many!

I also think it's a bit sad that this thread has been posted today, when Rowe v Wade has been repealed. Devastating outcomes for women. Zero effect for trans women.