To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

Because GC people believe how you present has fuck all to do with your sex and anyone can dress how they want, but that sex is important in law, and immutable. Gender ideology says that if you wear dresses or act in a feminine way you're a woman. That is what is insane. It’s like going back to the 1950s ideas of what men and women are about.

This. And I genuinely worry about how it encroaches on gay rights.

So what is a woman? What do all women and transwomen have in common that makes them women that no transman or man has?

Its blindingly obviously that trans women are MUCH more important than those boring old cunty ones locked up in womens prisons. None of the shiny TWAW people ever give them a second thought. There is nothing nuanced about their situation.

I'd like to know the answer to this as well actually.

Also, could you let us know how you feel about Rachel Dolezal OP? Is she black because she identifies as such?

Or what about me? I'm fat but if I identify as skinny, does that make me so? I can deny biological reality surely?

I believe them and support them. I really don’t understand why it causes so much rage for people.

There are complicated issues, yes, of prisons, refuges etc. But I don’t see why this makes people determined to tell trans women they are not what they feel they are.

Because it leads to situations where trans women can compete in sports along side women (or should I say ‘cis women’ ?) with the physical advantage of being biologically males.

OR

Women are called womb carriers, breastfeeding is called chest feeding etc.

OR

Trans woman raped woman on a female only hospital ward. Case was dismissed as the attacker identifies as woman, therefore no rape could be committed (Link for the interested )

All done to not offend trans community beliefs/feelings, which ends up being more important and politically correct than the feelings of women. Where does it stop?

That’s why it causes so much rage. As yet again, women can’t have five minutes for themselves. and be valued and celebrated for who and what they are. We are told to share the stage with anyone men who wake up one day thinking they’ve got the right to join us, without ever going through all the shit we go through, purely because of our gender.

It’s been barley 30 years since women were allowed to vote in Switzerland. But now, yet again, men in one form or another are being treated better than us.

A feeling apparently.... Catch up!

The dictionary doesn't struggle to define woman. It's an adult female of the human race. That is a fact, not a "social category".

trans women are trans women. Simple and accurate with no room for misinterpretation.

Yes widely used. But there are millions of women around the world who don’t have xx chromosomes , and in our day to day lives when we judge and assess whether people are women we don’t test their chromosomes.

Then bloody define 'woman' Tandora.

Just because something isn’t as simple to define as you think it is, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. “Woman” is a social category, that’s not to say “women” aren’t real. I believe women exist and I have no doubt you are a woman.

So if man and woman are social categories.

What categories are Xx and Xy chromosomes? I fear I've believe the wrong thing for 40 odd years

I though gender was a social constructed category? I thought the 21st century we were moving away from gender stereotypes?

So why the sudden need to define gender as a something people do, say, wear and feel and stereotype them into man and woman based on that?

I believe people can be whatever or whomever they choose, but I will NOT support trans rights usurping women's rights, such as the whole trans athletes in women's competitions. And don't get me started on birth parent or chest feeding! No doubt I'll get labelled TERF, but it's not that, we should be able to keep our rights whilst ensuring trans women get them too but not to cis women's detriment. Attached is a prime example. There used to be female and male emojis, now just a more male one, that's just erasing women not making it fair.

That's really sad, because time and time again I've seen women on here supported through their child's transition, and through discovering that their husband is transgender. There are some very thoughtful and generous posters on Mumsnet. To tar it as toxic is very simplistic.

Sorry my womanly brain feeling got distracted by my skinny skirt. Oooops.

So @Tandora do you think anyone who says they are a woman should be locked up in a womens prison?

Just because a word refers to a social category doesn’t mean it can’t be defined in the dictionary.

@itsgettingweird sorry but who are you to say that a dog is a dog. A dog might be a cat and the dog that is actually a cat may well be housed in a cattery. I mean facts aren’t facts according to posters on this thread so you can’t go around making statements based on facts!

Woman” is a social category

So if an adult human female doesn't conform to what society expects a woman to be like, then she isn't a woman? What do you mean by social category - how they dress? How they act?

No trans woman would deny the physical reality of her body.

Then why do they deny that they are trans women? There's nothing wrong with being a trans woman (or man) at all.

in our day to day lives when we judge and assess whether people are women we don’t test their chromosomes.

Because we don't need to. It's usually completely obvious whether someone is female.

Just because a word refers to a social category doesn’t mean it can’t be defined in the dictionary.

@Tandora what does this mean? is this like ‘words are not words’.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Just because a word refers to a social category doesn’t mean it can’t be defined in the dictionary.

Go on, give it your best shot.

Describe the social category "woman".

Trans women ARE NOT biological women they have no female reproductive system.

Is that reasonable enough for you?

Facts are not facts! Words are not words! Is there anything else @Tandora is going to deny? I’m on the edge of my seat here

People are bonkers. Talk themselves round in circles and back again with ever so clever and detailed analogies of why TWAW.

The simple fact is - we all know they're not.

All of us, every single person on this thread KNOWS. You, the person screaming from the rooftops that a transwoman with a six inch knob (or the scar where it used to be) is a woman. You KNOW they're not. We know that you know they're not.

It's all just so ridiculous and tiresome.

I hope transwoman have long, happy, fulfilled lives, I really do. I'll call anyone whatever they like, to be polite. But at age 35, I grew out of fairy tales a long time ago and I won't pretend that men are women or vice versa.

Because we all know.