To wonder if no one on Mumsnet believes that trans women are women?

[StolenCookie]

I’ve been lurking on the site for months, enjoying AIBU and laughing at some of the posts.

But yesterday I commented on a topic regarding the language around trans women, and the views expressed were very extreme.

Is there anyone at all on Mumsnet who, like me, did not realise how anti-trans this site is? Does anyone believe, unreservedly, that trans women are women?

YABU - trans women are not women.
YANBU - I support trans rights

You don't actually believe they are women but you are willing to play along with the game as you think it shows what a good person you are and makes you feel superior.

And no one gets to tell women what they are right? Woman is in fact defined by biological sex. I am a woman. If I can’t tell a transwoman what they are, they can’t tell me what I am . Transwomen are not women. Woman is not a feeling ffs. Why should women allow males to tell them what a woman is?

She knows herself better than you do- you do not get to tell her who she is.

Says who? Where has this weird idea come from, that we can't mention facts about people?

You're about to quote that Scientific American article now aren't you?

No, woman is a sexed descriptor. The same as Cow or Hen, Queen or Mare. A woman is an adult human female. Not a feeling.

No one is telling you what you are or aren’t. Your gender is not in dispute. I have no doubt at all that you are a woman.

She knows herself better than you do- you do not get to tell her who she is.

Oh the irony

Exactly. It’s ok to tell a woman they are a ‘uterus haver’ but we can’t they’ll a transwoman they’re male. Almost like a male rights movement there….

I feel the same. And honestly I feel quite unsettled I’ve lurked here for so long not realising how anti-trans so many people are. I didn’t have a clue!

pf course you can mention facts about people. The problem is the things you believe to be “facts” aren’t at all objective, simple or factual in the way you believe them to be.

I call dibs on clownfish!

How do I decide which trans women really are women, and can thus be housed in a womens prison, and which ones are not really trans and simply pretending to be so in order to gain unfettered access to vulnerable women? How can I tell the difference and keep my prison safe for ALL the offenders therein?

Surely it is better if I say womens prisons must be single sex. Trans women must go to the men's estate.

You like to pick and choose who you respond to don't you.

I'll ask again. Can someone feel like anything? Any race? A male? A female? Anything?

How do you know? You can’t define woman so no one is a woman. Ergo transwoman are not women. Another one tanking their argument. It’s like shooting clownfish in a barrel 😂😂😂😂

Oh dear. We’ve really reached crazy town with @Tandora ‘facts aren’t facts’

bonkers.

The problem is the things you believe to be “facts” aren’t at all objective, simple or factual in the way you believe them to be

You don't think sex is objective or factual?

(Not to mention, usually very obvious.)

Actually op, I hate to break it to you, but you're actually also a 'transphobe' I'm afraid.

You can't say TWAW and then state that some areas are complicated and nuanced and might need further thought, without being transphobic.

Sorry. Them's the roolz.

Because GC people believe how you present has fuck all to do with your sex and anyone can dress how they want, but that sex is important in law, and immutable. Gender ideology says that if you wear dresses or act in a feminine way you're a woman. That is what is insane. It’s like going back to the 1950s ideas of what men and women are about.

Brilliant! You said it so well! I may copy and paste this into the other topic where people yelled at me that I am a man that supports the abuse of women!

Your two voting options are not mutually exclusive and are therefore pointless.

This. Giving trans people rights and protection - yay! Please do. Denying biological fact - oh dear. No thank you.

“Woman” is a social category.

It's a term widely used to mean people of XX chromosomes. We need a widely accepted term that states sex. What term should we use?

Brilliant! You said it so well! I may copy and paste this into the other topic where people yelled at me that I am a man that supports the abuse of women!

Yeah, that will really show 'em.

This. If they can’t see how regressive their movement is, and how they are actually the ones reinforcing the gender binary, well, there’s not much hope for a clear definition of words. I especially like ‘facts are not facts’. I’m stealing that.

Just because something isn’t as simple to define as you think it is, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. “Woman” is a social category, that’s not to say “women” aren’t real. I believe women exist and I have no doubt you are a woman.

I feel the same. And honestly I feel quite unsettled I’ve lurked here for so long not realising how anti-trans so many people are. I didn’t have a clue!

No one is being anti trans. That's a lazy argument.

What would be great is if you could do some good debating and argue your point how a person who says they feel like a woman can define that feeling - by actually defining what feeling like a woman is.

And how someone with male biology can also be a woman? (Clue they can't - which is why they call themselves trans).

It's not anti trans to want woman to have female sex only spaces.

Trans was not can go about their lives as they wish. They can use open spaces as they wish. They cannot use single sex female spaces.

The same way a dog won't be housed in a cattery.

So you agree Rachel Dolezal is a black woman, because she says she is?